SPEAKER_1: Hi, I'm Brandon Castile, the lead game designer of Tempest Rising from 3D Realms.
SPEAKER_2: And you're listening to the Scene World Podcast.
SPEAKER_1: It's the Scene World Podcast.
SPEAKER_1: I'm AJ, that guy over there is Yurd, and this is Nels.
SPEAKER_2: So finally, you got a name.
SPEAKER_1: Yes, indeed.
SPEAKER_1: In a minute, we are talking with Ignacio Trelles, down all the way in...
SPEAKER_2: From the Nair?
SPEAKER_1: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: From Uruguay.
SPEAKER_2: He is working under the publishing of Microprose at Dying Breed.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: Which Brendan Castile mentioned in his interview with us about Tempest Rising.
SPEAKER_2: So we invited Ignacio as well, and he was like, yeah, I want to talk to you guys.
SPEAKER_2: So, yep.
SPEAKER_1: That's in a minute.
SPEAKER_1: Before then, we got a couple of bits of news, I think.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_1: And a comment.
SPEAKER_2: Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_1: Not the bird flu, although I did just triple-bag a dead snow goose that...
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, I mean, there was a swine flu breaking out exactly in the moment in 2009 that I flew to USA.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: So, I was actually getting a hand out from Lufthansa, telling passengers how to detect swine flu and where to report it if it happens to you on the flight.
SPEAKER_2: I'm like, okay, that's a good start.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, it's lunacy here with this bird flu.
SPEAKER_1: Everyone's freaking out about it.
SPEAKER_1: Right.
SPEAKER_1: But this morning we had a snow goose, which I've never seen a snow goose around here.
SPEAKER_1: That's like a big white goose.
SPEAKER_1: They live in Greenland and stuff.
SPEAKER_1: Just stumbling around and they just dropped dead.
SPEAKER_2: Wow.
SPEAKER_2: Well, it could have been a heart attack as well.
SPEAKER_1: Yes.
SPEAKER_1: I mean, he could have been hit by a car as well.
SPEAKER_1: Just because they're pretty big and you might not necessarily see damage if they just get kind of beamed.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_1: I live right next to an airport, so we actually could have gotten-
SPEAKER_2: You mean internal organ failure?
SPEAKER_1: Or a broken neck or something.
SPEAKER_1: I've seen goose get their necks broken and they just stumble around for a bit before.
SPEAKER_1: They don't die immediately.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, anyway, so the thing was that at that time, your partner actually worked in the hospital as a nurse, I believe.
SPEAKER_2: So I was in double danger.
SPEAKER_2: Interestingly, the week after I returned from the US, we actually got the vaccine in Germany.
SPEAKER_2: Like, wonderful.
SPEAKER_2: But what a timing.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: But luckily, I didn't get sick.
SPEAKER_1: All right.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: So it's all good.
SPEAKER_1: I'll tell you a story about it when we're done, about this.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_2: We don't want to talk about tests all the time.
SPEAKER_2: Anyway, talking about dying games, dying game server, unfortunately, Silvano Prassers announced that Multiverse, the platformer game, after one year of getting out of early access, actually shuts down the servers.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, so that was a short-lived.
SPEAKER_2: But they will switch to peer-to-peer, so you can still play it offline and with your friends online, well, peer-to-peer.
SPEAKER_1: Right, so you'll be making your own network.
SPEAKER_2: Server.
SPEAKER_2: Exactly, exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_2: Yes, and the same will happen with Battlecore Arena.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: Same thing will happen there.
SPEAKER_1: I don't know that one, but okay.
SPEAKER_1: Sure.
SPEAKER_2: But it's from Ubisoft Bordeaux and it's PVP, so player versus player battle.
SPEAKER_2: Using weapons, abilities, blah, blah, blah.
SPEAKER_2: And you are a battle core, a marble.
SPEAKER_2: I guess in pinball, you would say a ball.
SPEAKER_1: Right.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: So that's actually why it's called, that's actually why it said Battlecore, because it's the round core that you are battling against.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: And that also will turn into peer-to-peer.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: So, wow.
SPEAKER_2: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: Well, on the other side-
SPEAKER_1: Well, it's good that they are democratizing the game, because a lot of these things, when the servers go down, the game is dead.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_1: So, giving it over to the users to be able to make their own servers and continue playing it is-
SPEAKER_2: Yes.
SPEAKER_1: That's a step in the right direction.
SPEAKER_2: Yes.
SPEAKER_1: Because a lot of games from way back in the day are just unplayable because you can't get onto the network anymore.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_2: That's actually true because they have a service running in the background permanently.
SPEAKER_2: The crew too actually received a lot of hate from Ubisoft about that they announced to shut down the servers, though they made the game being playable online.
SPEAKER_2: Because many games including The Crew and The Crew 2 actually have also single player campaigns.
SPEAKER_2: But as the games have the always online requirement, the Crew 1, for example, the original Crew game is unplayable.
SPEAKER_2: Of course, it tries to connect to a server.
SPEAKER_2: And we mentioned this in the podcast in an earlier news section last year, that the community is actually working on their own servers.
SPEAKER_2: But that is actually the start where Ubisoft said, okay, we will patch out the live service of The Crew 2.
SPEAKER_2: So, you can still play it as a single player.
SPEAKER_2: Because what you have to keep into mind is that The Crew and The Crew 2 are actually games from the era where you physically bought the media to buy the game.
SPEAKER_2: So, you have the game data still at home on the optical media, but you can't install the game that you can't play it.
SPEAKER_2: That makes it even worse because you have the game there and you can't actually play it despite you have it.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, right, right.
SPEAKER_2: And this backslash to Ubisoft changed something into other publishers like Warner Press and the Battlecore Arena is also Ubisoft.
SPEAKER_2: So there you go, Bordeaux in France.
SPEAKER_2: But anyway, so that is why some publishers are like, wait a second, perhaps there's an alternative than just making the game unplayable, which is actually a good move.
SPEAKER_2: And I hope it will progress like that, as you said, during this year and the coming years.
SPEAKER_2: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: Well, on the other hand, we also have news about a returning, a returning brand IP, and that would be The Sims 1 and 2 has been re-released.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: And patched to be playable under modern, well, under modern operating system.
SPEAKER_2: And they call it The Sims and The Sims 2.
SPEAKER_2: Legacy collection.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: But here is important to know that no features have been added or life improvement features, you know, like support for higher resolution or whatsoever.
SPEAKER_2: Not really.
SPEAKER_2: They just fixed crashes, and they allowed 6 by 9 aspect ratio.
SPEAKER_2: So, and in some cases, even make it playable in Windows 11 at all.
SPEAKER_2: But apart from that, no improvements.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_1: Hey, real quick.
SPEAKER_2: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: That's my news, by the way.
SPEAKER_1: I got two bits of news here, which one is this guy Jim O9757.
SPEAKER_1: He's got a YouTube channel, and that's all I see for him, is a YouTube channel.
SPEAKER_1: He has, this guy releases a lot of Petsky games, a lot of them for the pet.
SPEAKER_1: He's done like Donkey Kong or Petsky Kong, a side-scroller, Petsky Brothers, like the old school Mario Brothers, where you just one screen bouncing around.
SPEAKER_1: Space Invaders 2 for the pet, Choplifter, Petlifter rather.
SPEAKER_1: A lot of these things, they're all in Petsky.
SPEAKER_1: So it's different.
SPEAKER_1: A month ago or so, maybe, he released Escape from Petsky Castle, which is a first-person, like Wolfenstein looking thing, again, in Petsky.
SPEAKER_3: Okay.
SPEAKER_1: A couple of days ago.
SPEAKER_2: What the Commodore PET?
SPEAKER_1: Right.
SPEAKER_1: A couple of days ago, he put up an 8-bit ray casting engine, it's a video on his channel for the C64.
SPEAKER_1: So he's porting that first-person Petsky shooter to the Commodore 64.
SPEAKER_1: So he put up a demo of that ray casting engine operating.
SPEAKER_1: And in the description of the video, which we'll link below, he says, a preview of a ray casting engine for the Commodore 64 to be used in my upcoming C64 game, Escape from Petsky Castle.
SPEAKER_1: I previously released first-person shooter games on the Commodore PET, and I'm now working on a version for the C64.
SPEAKER_1: So that's interesting to see that.
SPEAKER_1: It's pretty quick.
SPEAKER_1: Again, it's in Petsky, which will kind of afford you that bit more freedom to do stuff like that, because when you're working with bitmaps and whatnot, it's a little bit more in-depth.
SPEAKER_1: Petsky, especially when you're just dealing with your 8x8 color blocks, moving things around.
SPEAKER_1: There's pretty quick ways to do it that can make that workable.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, I'd be interested to see how it's done, because it looks like there's three columns at the right of the screen that aren't used, and one at the bottom.
SPEAKER_1: It's tough to tell because of how it's cropped.
SPEAKER_1: So yeah, it'd be interesting if it makes that source available.
SPEAKER_1: I'd like to see how that works.
SPEAKER_1: So we'll put a link to all of that down there.
SPEAKER_1: And the other bit of news I've got is that the Fast Loaders, that's a band, I believe.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: I know, I know.
SPEAKER_1: Yes, the Fast Loaders.
SPEAKER_2: From Hungary, if I'm not mistaken.
SPEAKER_1: Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_1: They've done a lot of covers of C64 games and whatnot.
SPEAKER_1: They just started a Kickstarter for a new album called Amiga Rocks Harder.
SPEAKER_1: So it's gonna be, they're saying it's a triple album.
SPEAKER_1: A sequel to their 2020 album Amiga Rocks.
SPEAKER_1: That's going to include more than 30 Amiga classics including Shadow of the Beast, Shadow of the Beast 3, Chambers of Shaolin, Future Wars, Turrican, Turrican 3, Waxworks, Agony, Nitro, Pinball Dreams, Pinball Fantasy, Pinball Illusions, Another World, Flashback, Apidia, Lotus Esprit Turbo Challenge, Blood Money, Fury of the Furries, Double Dragon 2, Zout, Chuck Rock 2, Budokan, Silkworm and more.
SPEAKER_1: It's also going to include a 10th anniversary digital art book, art book, Fast Loaders, the story so far.
SPEAKER_1: So yeah, that's currently there, that they're looking for.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, so this is NOK.
SPEAKER_1: I don't know what NOK is.
SPEAKER_1: But they're looking for, I'll put it in dollars.
SPEAKER_1: They're trying to get $24,877.
SPEAKER_1: They're already up to $19,000.
SPEAKER_1: So they are, yeah, three quarters of the way there.
SPEAKER_1: So they're looking for $280,000 NOK, which is, I'll look that up right now, hang on.
SPEAKER_1: NOK is not Nokia currency.
SPEAKER_3: Thank you.
SPEAKER_1: Norwegian Krone, there we go.
SPEAKER_1: So they're looking for $280,000 and they've got $218,000.
SPEAKER_1: So well on their way.
SPEAKER_1: There's 11 days left to go as of the time of this recording.
SPEAKER_1: So by the time you hear it, there will probably be less.
SPEAKER_1: And if you, if they say here that if they've got a favorite Amiga track you're passionate about, that you want them to do, there is a pledge level for that.
SPEAKER_1: So-
SPEAKER_2: Which is probably one of the higher-
SPEAKER_1: I'm looking, I'm looking.
SPEAKER_2: The rated ones.
SPEAKER_1: That is about, that is 5,500, what did I just say that was?
SPEAKER_1: Norwegian Kron's, Kroning?
SPEAKER_1: I don't know how to say it.
SPEAKER_1: Or about a little under $500.
SPEAKER_1: So yeah.
SPEAKER_2: I thought they were Hungarian, not Norwegian.
SPEAKER_2: Do I remember wrong?
SPEAKER_1: Maybe, maybe they are.
SPEAKER_1: Maybe I'm saying this wrong.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, they are from Bergen, Norway.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, there you go.
SPEAKER_1: That would explain why they're using Norwegian currency.
SPEAKER_1: So and then there's another tier for 10,000 Norwegian Kron's.
SPEAKER_1: That's about $900 where you can get two of your favorite Amiga tracks done.
SPEAKER_2: Wow.
SPEAKER_1: So I think I'd probably find the most complicated Amiga track I could find if I had that kind of money.
SPEAKER_1: The most complicated track, the most difficult thing to figure out, I'd be like, yeah, get that one down.
SPEAKER_1: It's got a time signature like a tool song.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, if it was C64, I would know which one to request.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, what's that?
SPEAKER_2: That would be Bugaboo the Flea.
SPEAKER_2: It's one of the most horrible sit songs.
SPEAKER_1: Oh boy.
SPEAKER_2: Do you know it?
SPEAKER_1: I don't, I don't know that.
SPEAKER_2: Well, it's of the game that had the first cutscene ever by Paco Portalo in Spain.
SPEAKER_1: It's the C64 version?
SPEAKER_1: Yep.
SPEAKER_1: I think I found it.
SPEAKER_2: This one.
SPEAKER_3: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: This one.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, it's getting verse with time.
SPEAKER_2: You shouldn't give up after 10 seconds.
SPEAKER_1: That was the song?
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, it's getting verse.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, let's go a little bit further.
SPEAKER_1: I don't know if anyone can hear this.
SPEAKER_1: They don't stick around more than 30 seconds.
SPEAKER_2: I know.
SPEAKER_2: Then it's repeating, actually.
SPEAKER_2: So it's absolutely horrible.
SPEAKER_1: Although I feel like that might be easy to do.
SPEAKER_1: This is kind of like a piano.
SPEAKER_1: You've got to give them something complicated with a weird time signature.
SPEAKER_2: Well, I mean, it's pretty easy.
SPEAKER_2: A lot of things from Jérôme Tell are pretty weird.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: So that's my news.
SPEAKER_1: That's what I got.
SPEAKER_1: We'll put a link to all that stuff down there.
SPEAKER_2: Awesome.
SPEAKER_2: So let's jump to Uruguay and talk about Dying Breed.
SPEAKER_1: Ta-da.
SPEAKER_2: So today we have another guest.
SPEAKER_2: And today I'm talking to Ignacio Trelles from Sarnayer.
SPEAKER_2: And we will be talking about the upcoming RTS game Dying Breed.
SPEAKER_2: And you came in the picture because we spoke to Prenden Castile before who is working on Tempest Rising and he said if you want to have an RTS with FMVs played by real actors, then look into Dying Breed.
SPEAKER_2: And you are the person he referred to.
SPEAKER_2: So welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_2: Glad to have you here.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: Thank you very much for inviting me.
SPEAKER_2: Awesome.
SPEAKER_2: Thanks for coming.
SPEAKER_2: I'm very, very happy.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: And I actually also saw the It's Based live stream where you had an interview.
SPEAKER_2: So I learned a bit about the game before.
SPEAKER_2: But actually it was suggested to me by Steam automatically.
SPEAKER_2: Originally, when I actually followed Tempest Rising, they were like, similar games you might like, you know?
SPEAKER_2: Like, okay, this looks interesting.
SPEAKER_2: So I knew about you before, but I was very surprised to learn that you are from Uruguay.
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: And because we never spoke to anybody from that about game development.
SPEAKER_2: And also I might spoil it here because it's really awesome.
SPEAKER_2: You actually got as publisher Microprose, which is totally awesome, I must say.
SPEAKER_2: I was like, man, he got it right.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, so anyway, we always ask our guests to intrude themselves a bit.
SPEAKER_2: So how did you actually get involved into computers and video games?
SPEAKER_2: And then how did you actually start your own game studio and development?
SPEAKER_2: Perhaps talk a bit about your history.
SPEAKER_4: Well, the first thing I got was a Nintendo with Mario game, Mario 1.
SPEAKER_4: Then we got Mario 2.
SPEAKER_4: It was very hard, Mario 2.
SPEAKER_4: Then we got Mario 3.
SPEAKER_4: Me, my sister, and my three cousins, that we lived very close between us.
SPEAKER_4: Also, my grandmother lived in the same street.
SPEAKER_4: I was in some houses, and I was into my aunt's or my grandmother from other sides.
SPEAKER_4: So that was the first.
SPEAKER_4: Then we got Super Nintendo.
SPEAKER_4: I got Mario Kart.
SPEAKER_4: We have a neighbor who has the N64, one of the first in Uruguay.
SPEAKER_4: To have N64, he also have a PC.
SPEAKER_4: That's the first time I touch a PC.
SPEAKER_4: We play UFO.
SPEAKER_4: UFO is a micro-prose game, which I recently bought by bots, and I have to go pick up the big box version.
SPEAKER_4: But I never liked it that much Nintendo 64, you know.
SPEAKER_4: I prefer like, PSI, Super Nintendo.
SPEAKER_4: And then, PC started to arrive in Uruguay.
SPEAKER_4: This Nintendo was 1993, something like that.
SPEAKER_4: Like Nintendo and the CDs arrived in Uruguay.
SPEAKER_4: So, once I asked my mother, how much did the Nintendo cost?
SPEAKER_4: And she was like, it was very, very expensive.
SPEAKER_4: But there wasn't like in that era, four channels in the TV.
SPEAKER_4: There was no cable.
SPEAKER_4: We gather all the cousins and we play, and it was like a nanny for us, you know.
SPEAKER_4: And that era, if you wanted to watch cartoon, it was only a Saturday morning and maybe some in the afternoon.
SPEAKER_4: It was, I remember, how you say, in that era, Nintendo era, we used to see this English actor, Mr.
SPEAKER_4: Bean.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_4: The same era as Mr.
SPEAKER_4: Bean, you know.
SPEAKER_4: And then I think that some Japanese cartoon start coming to Uruguay, the one they play football and the one with the robots a lot.
SPEAKER_4: And then like in 1997, my father got his first computer.
SPEAKER_4: I was 10 years old there.
SPEAKER_4: And after the PC, I played, I think, it was Age of Vampires.
SPEAKER_4: I got the Age of Vampires 1 original.
SPEAKER_4: And then my mother got a PC, they were separated.
SPEAKER_4: And then it was like Command and Conquer, Red Alert, Command and Conquer, Red Alert, and then Total Ignition.
SPEAKER_4: So my first four games were four RTS game.
SPEAKER_4: Until this day, I keep on playing them.
SPEAKER_4: So it's like something stuck into my mind.
SPEAKER_4: The perspective, 2.3, 25D perspective, they call it the fake 3D.
SPEAKER_3: That's the way I read.
SPEAKER_4: Everything made by hand.
SPEAKER_4: It was that.
SPEAKER_4: I was very good in sports, but I didn't like it to practice.
SPEAKER_4: I liked it to play, but I didn't like to practice.
SPEAKER_4: Then it's like Warcraft 3, it was a little bit later, Diablo 2, Baldur's Gate.
SPEAKER_4: I remember a lady who sells pens and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_4: She has a library and she used to play games.
SPEAKER_4: She lent me Baldur's Gate.
SPEAKER_4: I remember also playing Commandos in 1998 in a friend's house.
SPEAKER_4: I remember that because it was the France World Cup, Football World Cup at the same moment.
SPEAKER_4: And these were those games from 1997, 1998, pre-year 2000 that I fell in love.
SPEAKER_4: And then when 3D games starts appearing, I didn't like.
SPEAKER_4: I didn't like even Nintendo 64 games.
SPEAKER_4: And I did like Company of Heroes, but it went like 3 years or 4 years after World War 3, or 5 years after World War 3.
SPEAKER_4: Like, it was always like that.
SPEAKER_4: RTS game and RPG games, you know?
SPEAKER_2: You mentioned that you actually saw on television Japanese cartoon about soccer.
SPEAKER_2: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: Was it perhaps Captain Tsubasa?
SPEAKER_4: We call it Super Campeones here, and it was Oliver Benchy, Benchy Price, Oliver Atom.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know the translation, but it was, yes.
SPEAKER_2: Perhaps, perhaps.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, obviously, obviously, I don't know the Spanish name.
SPEAKER_4: I can check it.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, it's not important.
SPEAKER_2: I was just thinking like how much, how much cartoons with that theme you have there.
SPEAKER_2: But yeah, I was just looking at the English name, to be honest.
SPEAKER_4: We didn't have, how you say, cable, you know.
SPEAKER_4: So after it's cable, I was, I remember going to some family house, really in the north of Uruguay, that were in front of Argentina, and they got cable before us.
SPEAKER_4: And we have all the Japanese cartoons.
SPEAKER_4: And we went there because it was very hot, and all of the afternoon, when the elders take the nap, we used to watch TV.
SPEAKER_4: And it was the same era.
SPEAKER_4: I remember being in that house, and he signed in my head with a paper and a pen, and RTS again, you know.
SPEAKER_2: So what was it again called in Spanish?
SPEAKER_4: Super Campiones.
SPEAKER_2: Campiones?
SPEAKER_2: OK, they say Oliver by Benji?
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: Could be the same.
SPEAKER_2: Well, I don't know Spanish, but it's always interesting to see.
SPEAKER_4: It was very, very famous here.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, yeah, here we go.
SPEAKER_2: Super Campiones.
SPEAKER_2: Right, in Latino America.
SPEAKER_2: OK, OK, OK.
SPEAKER_2: So it is the same show.
SPEAKER_2: I was thinking about it.
SPEAKER_4: OK, OK.
SPEAKER_4: It was awesome, you know.
SPEAKER_4: And some years ago, like when FIFA downfall, Uruguay was the country per capita to have more players of FIFA.
SPEAKER_4: It's like all football games here are very popular.
SPEAKER_4: There are even some natives, I would say Uruguayan football games that are very similar to Sensible Soccer or some of those from Super Nintendo.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, Nintendo World Cup Soccer.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_4: The goal, you know.
SPEAKER_4: And well, when the PC came, it didn't change everything, you know.
SPEAKER_4: You used to use one, only one unit, and now you wear like a whole army.
SPEAKER_4: You have different units.
SPEAKER_4: It's like you are like a god.
SPEAKER_4: You have to make the economy.
SPEAKER_4: You have to place the buildings.
SPEAKER_4: You have to have an order.
SPEAKER_4: You have to repel the attacks.
SPEAKER_4: You have to discover the fog of war, everything like that was different.
SPEAKER_4: So after that, it changed for me.
SPEAKER_4: I used to play the arcades, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter.
SPEAKER_4: I was very good at playing Street Fighter.
SPEAKER_4: I remember I used to win like 20 match in a row, that my hands start hurting, and then the bigger guys come and punch me to take me out, like they kick me.
SPEAKER_4: And it was like, why they punch me, I play it and I won to them, and then they kick me out and they didn't like me to play anymore.
SPEAKER_4: But that was like in Street Fighter.
SPEAKER_4: In Mortal Kombat, I was good, and Killer Easting, I was very, very bad in Killer Easting, you know.
SPEAKER_4: But those games were very popular in the arcades here.
SPEAKER_4: And I was always good to play games.
SPEAKER_4: And it's like I learned fast.
SPEAKER_4: My cousin was better than me, but I learned fast, you know, faster than him.
SPEAKER_4: And then him, he practiced a lot and then he beat me.
SPEAKER_4: But so we were like a team.
SPEAKER_4: Then after WorldCraft 3, Dota, we played a lot of Dota.
SPEAKER_4: We played a lot of...
SPEAKER_4: Actually, he went when he was 15 years old to Germany, and he bought me Diablo 2 and WorldCraft 3, both original.
SPEAKER_4: So I played them in German.
SPEAKER_4: I didn't understand nothing.
SPEAKER_4: Then I learned how to change language, stuff like that.
SPEAKER_4: To pass, then we changed some CDs.
SPEAKER_4: But if you play the Dota inside WorldCraft 3, it was in English.
SPEAKER_4: No, it wasn't in German.
SPEAKER_4: But the campaign, I had to play it in Germany.
SPEAKER_4: It was very funny to hear the translation of the story.
SPEAKER_4: Then we entered multiplayer in WorldCraft.
SPEAKER_4: It was something different.
SPEAKER_4: We played Food Wars, we played some Helm's Deep, some mods were very famous.
SPEAKER_4: Then Dota started, Dota started, Dota started.
SPEAKER_4: Then I stopped playing a lot of games.
SPEAKER_4: But we started from Dota, we go to LoL League of Legends.
SPEAKER_4: There was some part of WoW, World of Warcraft in the middle, but in illegal, we didn't pay because we didn't have great cards.
SPEAKER_4: It was difficult here.
SPEAKER_4: My friends moved online a lot, in Lineage 2.
SPEAKER_4: I hated those games, it was horrible.
SPEAKER_4: There are some of them still playing Lineage 2.
SPEAKER_4: It's, I don't know.
SPEAKER_4: Well, some day, I was working like a salesman, I was a salesman before, and they basically offered me money and told me like, if I give you money, will you be able to make a game?
SPEAKER_4: And I was like, okay, yes, I will.
SPEAKER_4: Okay, so one week after, two weeks after, they told me like, I was for real, if you want to make a game, I give you money.
SPEAKER_4: And then I have like make a study.
SPEAKER_4: I used UFO, my first game, and Xenonauts as a reference.
SPEAKER_4: This old game made 20 years ago, something grab the idea, the style, make a new game called Xenonauts.
SPEAKER_4: It's the same game, but it looked different, the story is different.
SPEAKER_4: It earns that much money, amount of money.
SPEAKER_4: I thought I still like investigating, I didn't knew anything about computer.
SPEAKER_4: Actually, I am very, very bad at PC.
SPEAKER_4: I call myself a caveman, I am a caveman.
SPEAKER_4: I am good talking, I have good ideas, but I am very bad at PC.
SPEAKER_4: You never think about technology, I am very bad.
SPEAKER_2: I mean, what speaks for you is, you got the microphone correctly selected, because that is number one issue mostly with guests on Skype.
SPEAKER_2: They are like, can you hear me?
SPEAKER_4: Can you hear me?
SPEAKER_2: No, I can't hear you.
SPEAKER_3: I can't hear you.
SPEAKER_2: So, hey, that speaks for you.
SPEAKER_2: It worked instantly.
SPEAKER_4: It was already started.
SPEAKER_4: I think the Windows 11 IE did it itself.
SPEAKER_2: Perhaps.
SPEAKER_3: I can't remember.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know.
SPEAKER_2: But here is a question.
SPEAKER_2: What was the reason to offer you money for making a game?
SPEAKER_2: I mean, there must be a reason behind it, right?
SPEAKER_4: Well, they told me like, you always have good ideas.
SPEAKER_4: I guess that I am very humble or I live with.
SPEAKER_4: I went to one of the best schools in South America.
SPEAKER_4: In 1995, it was the best schools in South America, the French school.
SPEAKER_4: And I don't care about money.
SPEAKER_4: It's like it doesn't mean anything.
SPEAKER_2: But at least it pays the bills, right?
SPEAKER_4: Well, yes, now I learned that I do need money.
SPEAKER_4: You know, it is evil, but you need it.
SPEAKER_4: And something like money is following me.
SPEAKER_4: People offer me money.
SPEAKER_4: They say, whoa, wait, wait, wait.
SPEAKER_4: This started in 2018.
SPEAKER_4: I will give you money.
SPEAKER_4: 2019, we started.
SPEAKER_4: I broke my Achilles tendon that summer.
SPEAKER_4: I guess I never took anything for myself, you know, from the budget, was from paying to other people.
SPEAKER_4: One guy has to get obsessed with it, and he's like, okay, this is my last chance to do something, to stop being an employee and be my own owner.
SPEAKER_4: So, my wife got pregnant, so my decision was to resign my job.
SPEAKER_4: And I lived like two years with the minimum wage possible, like with nothing.
SPEAKER_4: I stopped going out, I stopped spending money.
SPEAKER_4: And I actually haven't bought much clothes since I am 15 years old.
SPEAKER_4: Like, I don't care.
SPEAKER_4: They have offered me like trips to New York, Switzerland, Milan.
SPEAKER_4: It's like, no, thanks, I like to stay here.
SPEAKER_4: And I guess to be a nice people all your life, never do nothing bad to anyone.
SPEAKER_4: So they give me the vote of confidence.
SPEAKER_4: And I took the opportunity and forward.
SPEAKER_4: Well, we got the MicroProse like a publisher.
SPEAKER_4: We are making a second game now.
SPEAKER_4: I do earn a little bit more money, but like all my employees earn more money than me.
SPEAKER_2: But interestingly, in the other interview by It's Based, you actually mentioned that it was a hard and stony way to get MicroProse as a publisher.
SPEAKER_2: I remember you said you had a lot of publishers that you had been in touch with that promised you heaven.
SPEAKER_2: And in the end, they even ghosted you and didn't answer you anymore.
SPEAKER_2: And so it wasn't as straightforward as you made it sound right now.
SPEAKER_4: No.
SPEAKER_4: But yes, this started like seven years ago.
SPEAKER_4: No, you know, six, five years ago we started producing a lot of ups and downs.
SPEAKER_4: Again, the publisher part was special, you know.
SPEAKER_4: After first demo, we got an offer.
SPEAKER_4: My associate didn't want, they wanted more money.
SPEAKER_4: It was like, no, let's work with them.
SPEAKER_4: We stopped, and they took me out of the decision.
SPEAKER_4: Sean fell down, so I got mad and made like a coup d'etat.
SPEAKER_4: It's like, okay, now I take the decisions.
SPEAKER_4: And the thing is after we put, create the Steam page, the publishers start coming to us.
SPEAKER_4: And before people were saying like, no, you have to ask more money, you can't do it with that, ask more, more.
SPEAKER_4: And the people who knew in Uruguay were the ones who gave us the worst ideas, or the worst, how do you say?
SPEAKER_4: It's like they wanted us to fail, you know?
SPEAKER_2: The worst recommendation.
SPEAKER_4: Exactly.
SPEAKER_4: They told the opposite of we.
SPEAKER_4: But it's true, it's true.
SPEAKER_4: And they still doing it to other guys who don't have a share.
SPEAKER_4: I have a friend that one guy told him, no, ask one million dollar.
SPEAKER_4: Never published one game in his life, and the guy who knows in Uruguay told him, you have to ask one million dollar.
SPEAKER_4: They won't give you one million dollar.
SPEAKER_4: You haven't make money in your life, you know?
SPEAKER_4: And stuff like that, and like it's stubborn, stubborn.
SPEAKER_4: But once we created the Steam page and SplatterCast, it all changed, you know?
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, interesting.
SPEAKER_2: I mean, you mentioned Red Alert at the beginning of the interview, and I noticed actually when I played the demo, that one of the demo missions at least, I think it was the second demo, it actually is indoor.
SPEAKER_2: And I was like, wow, this totally feels like Red Alert indoor missions.
SPEAKER_2: And it was so much, so much feeling at home.
SPEAKER_2: Because, unfortunately, as I learned in the Tempest Rising interview, this game won't have any indoor missions.
SPEAKER_2: So I was like, yes, indoor missions.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: And it's good because compared to original Red Alert, you don't have a timer running down.
SPEAKER_2: That's really an advantage.
SPEAKER_3: No.
SPEAKER_2: Because that always pissed me off.
SPEAKER_4: We made the first demo.
SPEAKER_4: We got an offer the other day.
SPEAKER_4: It fell down.
SPEAKER_4: So we make a second demo and we start sending the demos to publisher.
SPEAKER_4: At the start, we make a list of 200 publisher from the A to the C, and start to A, B, sending the mails.
SPEAKER_4: So the mails doesn't reach out.
SPEAKER_4: They never reach.
SPEAKER_4: They never read them.
SPEAKER_4: You have to reach the person via LinkedIn, via elsewhere, and talk directly.
SPEAKER_4: I remember a guy from a well-known publisher, adding me in Twitter, saying, oh, what a great game.
SPEAKER_4: And I sent him a message, like, you're saying what a great game, and I send you an e-mail, and you never answer it.
SPEAKER_3: So what are you doing?
SPEAKER_4: And he was like, which e-mail do you send?
SPEAKER_4: I send it to this e-mail.
SPEAKER_4: And he told me, oh no, this e-mail is broken.
SPEAKER_4: We don't get anything from this e-mail.
SPEAKER_4: And they have that e-mail in the web page, you know?
SPEAKER_4: So you can directly go to the people in charge, if not the owner.
SPEAKER_4: And if you have the Steam page, it is better.
SPEAKER_2: Right, right, right, right, right.
SPEAKER_2: Now I have to ask you, because my first question I asked myself was, aren't you fearing any repercussions from EA, because the graphics are so similar in the assets?
SPEAKER_4: We made everything by hand here, you know?
SPEAKER_4: Like, everything is new since 2019.
SPEAKER_4: We did everything by ourselves.
SPEAKER_2: But you have to admit the style is very, very close to the original Command and Conquer.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, originally it was like Command and Conquer, Heroes of Might and Magic, Commandos.
SPEAKER_4: So those were the game that we were, even GTA 1, Grand Theft Auto 1.
SPEAKER_4: And those were the games that we looked up to see how to do it.
SPEAKER_4: We actually went to make a Command and Conquer because it was hard, and it was never done here.
SPEAKER_4: And yes, at the start it was more like a Commando style of game that looks like a Command and Conquer, a 1.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_4: That was my first game ever.
SPEAKER_4: So we go through that path because I was thinking that it was very boring to play always the same campaign of my favorite game every one or two years, and I wanted to do something similar but with my image.
SPEAKER_4: Like one or two years after I started thinking of Dying Breed, Command and Conquer was an announcement, the remastered, you know?
SPEAKER_2: Right, the remastered collection.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, true.
SPEAKER_4: An announcement, and one year after, it went out.
SPEAKER_4: I was like, oh no, this is not my idea.
SPEAKER_3: But it changed everything.
SPEAKER_4: The remastered appear and all the old RTS game come back to be popular.
SPEAKER_4: I remember entering this Command and Conquer community, mods in, I don't remember the name now, is not open, open R, open R, no.
SPEAKER_4: Forget about it.
SPEAKER_4: It was like 200 people in average every day, and after the Command and Conquer remastered, it jumped to 1,800, something like that, and then stabilized in 900.
SPEAKER_4: So it's like it renewed the love from the RTS game.
SPEAKER_4: And you know, it's like people all age, like reaching 40, a little less, a little bit more, who has a PC in the years, in the 19 years, mid-19s.
SPEAKER_4: And this is going to that fan, you know?
SPEAKER_4: So I don't want to Chinese kids playing.
SPEAKER_4: If they play, okay, but you know, I'm going to people like me.
SPEAKER_4: It's like all new RTS game were in 3D and multiplayer.
SPEAKER_4: And I never really liked multiplayer, but some games, you know?
SPEAKER_4: And it was like, you know, I want to do it on the single player and like with a story, you know, to sell drama.
SPEAKER_4: They will make us different, but it's like start again from 1995.
SPEAKER_4: The idea, the evolution, okay, it came back from the start, you know?
SPEAKER_4: And yes, it does look like the Comuna Conqueror, the camera also, the angle is a little bit different.
SPEAKER_4: If you look, really look.
SPEAKER_4: I remember explaining to the artist, I throw myself to the floor and I told him, imagine you are looking this from the app, and it was like moving like this, and like this is like the units moves in Comuna Conqueror, you know?
SPEAKER_4: And we did that.
SPEAKER_4: At start, we started with our money, you know, and they stole our workers, they start stealing our workers before we have a publisher.
SPEAKER_4: After the publisher, they, how do you say, they change everything.
SPEAKER_4: But yes, it was a long path.
SPEAKER_4: We have like a lot of hate at the start.
SPEAKER_4: They told me very mean things, and at first it was, oh, I feel very bad for the things they were telling me, you know, but then...
SPEAKER_2: Who was telling you the bad things?
SPEAKER_4: Oh, once in 4chan, he made a post in 4chan.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, God.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: I mean, it's like you go to reddit, 4chan, all those places where you have a collective of haters.
SPEAKER_4: And channel, fuck you, I'm going to defend.
SPEAKER_4: And they start telling me like, oh, you're basic, you're basic, keyboard warrior.
SPEAKER_4: And they start to threaten me.
SPEAKER_4: We're going to call EA.
SPEAKER_4: And I got like threatened, life threat threatens.
SPEAKER_2: Wow.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: It's like the, the, the, their, their, their investigator who were threatening me, you know?
SPEAKER_4: And it was like military guys in, in Twitter with guns and they, they look like idiots.
SPEAKER_4: But then it changed, you know, after first demo, the people realized that it looked like, but it wasn't like anything.
SPEAKER_4: If you separate everything, actually, the units are inspired in Contra games, Super Nintendo Contra.
SPEAKER_2: Right, right.
SPEAKER_2: I also noticed you have also zombies.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_2: Which is also not a part of, of Command and Conquer.
SPEAKER_2: So you actually added a lot of elements.
SPEAKER_2: And I also saw worms and stuff coming out of the earth and so on.
SPEAKER_2: So you actually have a lot of unique elements to the gameplay.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, I think the aesthetics is inspired in Command and Conquer, but I always saw like RTS games like a tree.
SPEAKER_4: You have the Age of Empires branch, the Total Ignition branch, the Command and Conquer branch, the Company of Heroes branch, the Warcraft, you know.
SPEAKER_4: Now the Shred, there is a lot of games similar to Warcraft 3.
SPEAKER_4: There are a lot of games similar to Company of Heroes, Rat and Rag, I don't know, Tesla, how you say, Steam, those, Steam Bank RTS game.
SPEAKER_4: I don't remember the name now.
SPEAKER_4: I don't, something.
SPEAKER_4: You have Beyond All Reason, it's like total annihilation.
SPEAKER_4: You have Tempered Rise and a lot of games similar to Command and Conquer.
SPEAKER_4: I guess the most difficult one is H1PYRE, but because it still have the base, they still playing H1PYRE 1 or 2.
SPEAKER_4: But there are a lot of yes, and Dying Breed, it is in the Command and Conquer branch.
SPEAKER_4: You have some elements and stuff from other games, but imagine I didn't knew how to do anything, and we have to learn and make the publicity, the advertising all by yourself.
SPEAKER_4: We did advertising only to get a publisher, and after we get the publisher, we slow down with the advertising.
SPEAKER_2: I mean, it worked because I found you, so I knew who you are.
SPEAKER_2: So it was like-
SPEAKER_4: Free advertising.
SPEAKER_4: No, we never-
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: I mean, one of those times where the STEAM algorithm actually was useful, you know?
SPEAKER_3: It's like-
SPEAKER_2: It's interesting.
SPEAKER_2: Now let me-
SPEAKER_4: You say that now, the STEAM algorithm, it isn't useful.
SPEAKER_2: Well, I mean, you know, usually when you have algorithms like Facebook, Amazon and so on, you could like this too.
SPEAKER_2: 90 percent of all times, it's like, oh, come on, seriously, and you say not interested.
SPEAKER_2: But in this case, I was like, oh, actually, this looks kind of nifty.
SPEAKER_2: Let's look into it, you know?
SPEAKER_4: I remember a post I made in YouTube, and some guys were telling me like, you beat the YouTube algorithm, you know, it's because I didn't pay anything, and it got like 50,000 views.
SPEAKER_4: Impression, impressions and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_4: And yes, you know, they shadow ban you.
SPEAKER_4: If you don't pay to them, they hide you.
SPEAKER_4: And I have learned that since I started, it changed, you know, YouTube changed, Twitter changed for worth.
SPEAKER_4: Reddit was the easiest one to get views, it also changed, they all changed.
SPEAKER_4: They lowered the price also.
SPEAKER_4: But if you don't pay to them, they shadow ban you, they hide you.
SPEAKER_4: Unless you have like something really, really great, a great project that everyone stays, you know.
SPEAKER_4: But Dying Breed is like something niche, they say niche.
SPEAKER_2: I mean, what really was a banger for me was actually the theme, the music of the trailer.
SPEAKER_2: I was like, wow, this is something.
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: We started making music at the same time we started making art or code.
SPEAKER_4: We have produced 18 songs.
SPEAKER_4: We have a new one now.
SPEAKER_4: We made like original soundtrack for Good Faction, and a different edition soundtrack for Evil Faction, with different bands.
SPEAKER_4: And everyone, a lot of people told us that the music is great.
SPEAKER_4: I have produced like maybe half of them.
SPEAKER_4: Some others, they made it alone.
SPEAKER_4: Some of them, I was there.
SPEAKER_4: The ones that have lyrics, I have written the lyrics.
SPEAKER_4: And people always told us that they love the music, sell it separate, I want to have it.
SPEAKER_4: Even now, YouTube, it is, some months that I haven't post anything.
SPEAKER_4: And like from the six or seven most videos, five or six are songs.
SPEAKER_4: And so we started selling songs.
SPEAKER_4: We started producing and selling songs to other games.
SPEAKER_4: And we are making a page now to a web page to start selling.
SPEAKER_4: Last year, like October, September, I started selling music and I got 10 clients in 10 days, only showing them one or two songs we have already made.
SPEAKER_4: And this was like, we get overwhelmed and we couldn't make music to all the 10s.
SPEAKER_4: We only make music to two of them.
SPEAKER_4: And I was making them for free, only for helping my friends because I want them to live from the music.
SPEAKER_4: You know, because I like them.
SPEAKER_4: This is, it started with friends and family.
SPEAKER_4: Dying Breed was friends and family.
SPEAKER_2: I mean, hey, perhaps it will jumpstart the career of who did the music.
SPEAKER_2: I mean, look at people like Frank Lepecki, who became famous by making the Command and Conquer soundtrack.
SPEAKER_2: Perhaps you could become famous by the Dying Breed soundtrack.
SPEAKER_4: You never know, you know.
SPEAKER_4: I hope I start investigating how much they pay in Europe, you know, they pay like for one minute of music in Europe, they pay what I earn in one month.
SPEAKER_2: Ah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: I know, I know, I know.
SPEAKER_2: Yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_4: So that's why like we aren't worse than them.
SPEAKER_4: We are poorer than we need.
SPEAKER_4: If we charge them half, we both will earn.
SPEAKER_4: So we went with that idea.
SPEAKER_4: And as I told you, it was a salesman before, and I am very frontal, very honest.
SPEAKER_4: You know, I told you, I will do this, I do this.
SPEAKER_4: I want to do that.
SPEAKER_4: I am like that.
SPEAKER_4: And now I started again to do it.
SPEAKER_4: We made two songs, but a lot.
SPEAKER_4: It's like I rejected the money.
SPEAKER_4: This year I was earning money, I rejected to another guy.
SPEAKER_4: It takes me a lot of time in the summer.
SPEAKER_4: And the page, it isn't ready yet.
SPEAKER_4: I want that to work automatically, you know?
SPEAKER_4: At the start, you have to put some hours, but we will make it.
SPEAKER_4: We thought we were starting on February, like two days ago, but we always get late on those.
SPEAKER_4: Is this like a separate project or a separate company?
SPEAKER_4: How you say?
SPEAKER_4: But yes, people ask us the music to put it everywhere, and we will put it everywhere, even in Spotify.
SPEAKER_4: You know what I say?
SPEAKER_4: I learned rock and roll from Frank Klepacki.
SPEAKER_4: You know, I went from Uncommon, I Conquer, Frank Klepacki to reload from Metallica, you know?
SPEAKER_4: Give me few rubrify and and Hull March at the same year, same time, it was 1997.
SPEAKER_4: From Spice Girls to Metallica, from Nintendo to VCR.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, Spice Girls.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, Spice Girls.
SPEAKER_4: It was huge here in Uruguay, it was huge.
SPEAKER_4: I did have the two CDs, original CDs.
SPEAKER_2: Awesome, awesome, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Well, I mean, you could sell merchandise before the game is already out, theoretically.
SPEAKER_2: Now you mentioned your love for, well, different trees, as you said, of RTS games.
SPEAKER_2: Now, can you, I don't know if you can spoil it, but will there be somebody like a special civilian with special skills like Tanya, for example?
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: Well, in first demo, you use the Commando unit.
SPEAKER_4: It has one unit.
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: It can explode buildings similar to the Commando from first, the Commando Conquer, Tiberian Down.
SPEAKER_4: Right.
SPEAKER_4: Then we have some special inside buildings missions, similar to Demo 3, also with three floors, and you have special units.
SPEAKER_4: You have three hero ladies that are actually, they have actors who play it, actresses, who play in the intros and outros on the cutscenes, that they are my two cousins and my sister, and the commando is my cousin, and the cousin of my cousin for his father's side is the general.
SPEAKER_2: The whole family plays a role there.
SPEAKER_2: I see.
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: It was also to make it cheaper, you know, because we didn't pay them.
SPEAKER_4: Right.
SPEAKER_2: But you mentioned third demo?
SPEAKER_2: On your homepage, I only found two demos.
SPEAKER_2: Did I miss a demo?
SPEAKER_4: Third demo, it is coming.
SPEAKER_2: It is coming.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: So for the foreseeable future, I see.
SPEAKER_4: It is very, very close.
SPEAKER_4: We have a demo ready for the RTS Fest, but it wasn't challenging enough.
SPEAKER_2: I see.
SPEAKER_4: And like solving some issues we have one week before.
SPEAKER_4: So it's too close.
SPEAKER_4: It was too easy.
SPEAKER_4: And now we're preparing another new demo.
SPEAKER_4: The first demo with base building, you know?
SPEAKER_4: Before you have base building, now you have base building.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: I mean, for the first demo, it was not so easy.
SPEAKER_2: I remember like mission failed.
SPEAKER_2: Commando must not die.
SPEAKER_2: And then you try again.
SPEAKER_2: General must not die.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, wait.
SPEAKER_2: Wait a second.
SPEAKER_2: This person must not die.
SPEAKER_2: The other person must not die.
SPEAKER_2: Holy crap.
SPEAKER_4: The engineer and the commando can die.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, we did the first demo and it was very difficult, but there were people who were asking more difficulty.
SPEAKER_3: Oh, come on.
SPEAKER_2: Seriously?
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: Hardcore players want it to be more difficult.
SPEAKER_4: So the second demo, after we added the difficult level.
SPEAKER_4: So basically, if you play easy, play easy would be very easy.
SPEAKER_4: If you play hard, it could be hard or not, depending on your skill, and the normal is the most difficult one.
SPEAKER_4: It could be more closer to the easy or more close to the hard.
SPEAKER_4: But now you can pick.
SPEAKER_4: But we learned about that, it was very difficult, the first demo.
SPEAKER_4: We didn't have load safe, so the second demo will also make it difficult, but it was longer and you could save the mission.
SPEAKER_4: So we changed a lot.
SPEAKER_4: And between first and second demo, there were like 10,000 almost near, we're near 10,000 downloads.
SPEAKER_4: Since 11 October 2021, was the date of the first demo mission.
SPEAKER_4: The second demo mission was in like in January 2023, it go out.
SPEAKER_2: And the upcoming third one will be on Steam?
SPEAKER_4: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_4: It will be the first one on Steam.
SPEAKER_4: If we never did, since the announcement of MicroProse, we have never make advertising from the game.
SPEAKER_4: And it's like we have a little base of fans, you know, actually, Come and Conquer One fans.
SPEAKER_4: Now, I think that we like started something, you know, like grabbing a game from the past and do it in the RTS, because there are like, I don't know, 20 Come and Conquer Generals clones now.
SPEAKER_4: They call it clones.
SPEAKER_4: They are clones or not.
SPEAKER_4: 20 Come and Conquer Generals alike games are being made at this time.
SPEAKER_4: So I was go like more far away, and we did it on Come and Conquer One.
SPEAKER_4: I would really love to make a Tiberian Sun after.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: I really, really love it.
SPEAKER_2: But make it less bug-free than Tiberian Sun, because I remember the problem was, but of course that was 1997, or was it no, it was 1999 actually.
SPEAKER_2: Before I had Internet, you couldn't simply download a patch.
SPEAKER_2: And I remember it always crashed in mission at the beginning.
SPEAKER_2: And so, saving or loading didn't really help.
SPEAKER_4: EA thought was that, because they hired again.
SPEAKER_4: Because EA had bought already Westwood, and it was the original.
SPEAKER_4: I think it was the last game with the original team without EA touching it.
SPEAKER_2: True, true.
SPEAKER_4: And then Red Alert 2 popped out.
SPEAKER_4: It was very famous, popular.
SPEAKER_4: But I think that it had more EA hand in there.
SPEAKER_2: Yes, it was done by a different studio, by a different team, actually, yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, it was very good.
SPEAKER_4: It was very similar to the original.
SPEAKER_4: But then they started deviating.
SPEAKER_4: I remember, actually, yes, Tiberian Sun crashed a lot.
SPEAKER_4: Not in my house.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know why, or the version I had.
SPEAKER_4: I remember in that era I couldn't play HITIA 3 on my PC.
SPEAKER_4: It didn't work.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know why.
SPEAKER_4: And Coma Congress generals, my PC was very old for that era.
SPEAKER_4: But I liked the Coma Congress generals.
SPEAKER_4: I didn't like it as much as Tiberian Sun or Red Alert 1, or Tiberian Down, you know?
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, I mean, the FMVs with the extras were missing, and I totally, totally prefer that.
SPEAKER_4: They went from one hour of FMV to 20 minutes, something like that.
SPEAKER_4: They cut it, cut it, cut it, they changed it.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know what EA is doing.
SPEAKER_4: I read the other day that they have in the contract, if they don't make a Coma to Conquer game, maybe X years, they lost the IP.
SPEAKER_4: That's why they make cell phone games.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know if it is true or false, but I guess they should make a new Coma to Conquer game with the original story.
SPEAKER_4: See what Tempest Rising is doing.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: I mean, everybody is saying Tempest Rising is the new hope for all Command and Conquer players.
SPEAKER_4: It is something new.
SPEAKER_4: It has, you see, Coma to Conquer games are very simple.
SPEAKER_4: They don't have much details.
SPEAKER_4: And Tempest Rising has a lot of details.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: I mean, Command and Conquer was so much focusing on the FMVs.
SPEAKER_2: The in-game was still VGA resolution.
SPEAKER_2: And that was actually remarkable for 1995.
SPEAKER_2: Only in Red Alert 1996 release, they actually, in the Windows version, they actually added SVGA graphics.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, it was a DOS game at the start, right?
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_4: It played like an older version or, yes, a Windows version.
SPEAKER_4: But...
SPEAKER_2: And later on, they corrected that by releasing Command and Conquer Gold Edition, that actually offered an SVGA resolution.
SPEAKER_4: But that was way later, I guess, I think.
SPEAKER_2: That's true.
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: I also play a lot of Clues of Might and Magic.
SPEAKER_4: I should have named it a lot in that era, 1999, with my cousin.
SPEAKER_4: But then I dropped to...
SPEAKER_4: When Red Alert 2 came out, I also had Diablo 2.
SPEAKER_4: So I went a little bit to Diablo.
SPEAKER_4: I was top 200 sorceress in the world.
SPEAKER_4: I left a little bit of the RTS game because I didn't like the new ones that were coming.
SPEAKER_4: I played a lot of Kohan 2.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know.
SPEAKER_4: It's a game that not much people know about it.
SPEAKER_4: It has some new stuff, interesting.
SPEAKER_4: Then I went to Civilization, like a lot of it, back to MicroProse games.
SPEAKER_4: And I do still play a lot of Civilization 4 and Civilization 5.
SPEAKER_4: I will go to Civilization 5 to Civilization 4, from Civilization 4 to Civilization 5.
SPEAKER_4: And this year, I did start buying games.
SPEAKER_4: But before, I always played old games.
SPEAKER_4: And I like old games.
SPEAKER_2: It's actually interesting because MicroProse is not really known for RTS games.
SPEAKER_2: When I hear MicroProse, I mostly think about simulation games or soccer games.
SPEAKER_2: MicroProse soccer, for example, was a favorite of mine.
SPEAKER_2: And as I mentioned, Civilization is another example.
SPEAKER_4: You remember Match Commander?
SPEAKER_4: Match Commander.
SPEAKER_2: Never heard of that.
SPEAKER_4: Oh, let me check.
SPEAKER_4: It was Match Commander.
SPEAKER_4: It is an RTS.
SPEAKER_2: That totally passed by me.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, Match Commander was the one.
SPEAKER_4: The guy who did it, he was very famous.
SPEAKER_4: He did another game, very famous game before.
SPEAKER_4: I can't remember now.
SPEAKER_4: But it was, you didn't have base building.
SPEAKER_4: But it was a really, really good game.
SPEAKER_4: And I think you should test it.
SPEAKER_4: Match Commander is from 1998.
SPEAKER_4: And of course, roller coaster tycoon.
SPEAKER_4: I have my tycoon era also.
SPEAKER_4: But there's always like 2D, 25D perspective.
SPEAKER_4: You know, all the games I always loved, it was like that.
SPEAKER_4: And of course in Europe, a lot of FIFA.
SPEAKER_4: All the FIFA.
SPEAKER_2: Now the question is, what is your opinion about Command and Conquer Renegade?
SPEAKER_4: I did like it when it came out, you know.
SPEAKER_4: I remember something that maybe I am wrong, but maybe I am not.
SPEAKER_4: It was when EA was grabbing Westwood.
SPEAKER_4: And so they, one of the FMB, they film like water in the floor, and the moon reflects in the water in the floor, and the Westwood logo appears, something like that.
SPEAKER_4: And then a soldier splash it, and it goes up, and the EA logo appears.
SPEAKER_4: It's like some of transition from Westwood to EA, something weird like that.
SPEAKER_4: And I really like it because it was back to Tiberian Down, you know, the structures were from Tiberian Down.
SPEAKER_4: But I never liked that much shooter games.
SPEAKER_4: The last shooter I played, really played a lot was Metal Phono or Alia d'Assaut in 2001, you know.
SPEAKER_4: And I think it was like I didn't have the right PC in that era when shooters start coming out.
SPEAKER_4: So my PC was getting old and I keep on playing old games.
SPEAKER_4: I think that was because I really don't like shooter games.
SPEAKER_4: I now have a strong PC, I could play any shooter I want.
SPEAKER_4: I actually bought Helldivers 2, a friend told me he bought Helldivers 2, and two hours later I was sending a letter to Steam, please, please allow me to give back this, I don't like it.
SPEAKER_4: Like a friend told me to play it, it is boring for me, and I'm more managing resources and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_4: I don't like much shooters.
SPEAKER_4: Also, it wasn't that good in shooter games as I was in RPS games.
SPEAKER_2: I have to admit as a player back then, I've always found the FMVs very rewarding when you successfully finish a mission, because it progressed the story, and you wanted to know what's happening next.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, and you make the story in your head, and in the meanwhile, you have to test yourself, and you have to advance, and it adds something.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, it's like drugs.
SPEAKER_2: That was long before I had Internet, and long before YouTube.
SPEAKER_2: Now, nowadays, if you are failing at a mission, you can just say, oh, I download a safe game from the Internet that skips this, or I look at YouTube, but I'm missing, you know?
SPEAKER_4: I actually did that the other day.
SPEAKER_4: It's like, how to do this?
SPEAKER_4: I needed like a stone in a game, and I didn't knew which was the stone in the game.
SPEAKER_4: It's like, okay, how does stone looks on this game?
SPEAKER_4: I had to Google it.
SPEAKER_4: But yes, before we have the magazines, I remember Mortal Kombat on the arcade.
SPEAKER_4: The magazines, they came with the action figures.
SPEAKER_4: Sometimes the Shardware versions.
SPEAKER_4: The only doom I had in my life was on the World 1.
SPEAKER_4: It was like a Shardware version.
SPEAKER_4: And Tom Ryder was very famous here also, Need for Speed, you know.
SPEAKER_4: It was all Shardware version.
SPEAKER_4: They came in those magazine, PC Magazine and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_4: And that era was interesting.
SPEAKER_4: Now, it's like there is a lot of stuff going around.
SPEAKER_4: And the other day, I saw a meme.
SPEAKER_4: It was comparing how to be, I don't know, like a 19th kid and how to be a 2010 kid.
SPEAKER_4: And in 19th, you see the evolution of the games a lot.
SPEAKER_4: And now, 10 years ago, it's like maybe a kid only played Fortnite or GDI or Grand Theft Auto all of his life, you know?
SPEAKER_4: And we saw the evolution of all the gaming and all different style of games coming out.
SPEAKER_4: And now, I don't know, it's so much stuff, but a lot of people are only in some games.
SPEAKER_4: It changed the thing, multiplayer changed everything.
SPEAKER_4: I used to love multiplayer games, but now I want more single-player games.
SPEAKER_4: Like, remember those Phantasmagoria games, you know, some stuff like that.
SPEAKER_4: I think they will come back.
SPEAKER_4: A mix of terror, horror and single-player.
SPEAKER_2: You know, I've never been a big fan of horror games, except the only game I played in that show on Reverve was Alone in the Dark.
SPEAKER_2: But apart from that, I'm not really a big horror fan.
SPEAKER_4: I am neither.
SPEAKER_4: I hate that only.
SPEAKER_4: I remember buying it in Brazil, in PlayStation 1.
SPEAKER_4: You see, start playing, got scared and never more.
SPEAKER_2: Jump scare like, no, thank you.
SPEAKER_2: Thank you.
SPEAKER_2: You mentioned at the beginning, you are planning to only do a single-player campaign.
SPEAKER_2: No multiplayer?
SPEAKER_2: No chance?
SPEAKER_4: Thinking of multiplayer, we had to think it before starting.
SPEAKER_4: It was never due to be a multiplayer.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_4: It can change.
SPEAKER_4: We have a lot of success, and people start asking multiplayer.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, we can do it.
SPEAKER_2: Multiplayer DLC on Steam.
SPEAKER_4: Multiplayer what?
SPEAKER_2: Multiplayer DLC.
SPEAKER_4: Say yes.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know.
SPEAKER_4: Skirmish?
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: Playing alone against the AI.
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: But multiplayer, I think it would be very difficult.
SPEAKER_4: It was never the idea.
SPEAKER_4: And I never, I don't know how to do it, but it's single player.
SPEAKER_4: Single player, two campaigns, good campaigns, evil campaign.
SPEAKER_4: Play alone in your house on a weekend.
SPEAKER_2: On a weekend, John?
SPEAKER_4: Yes, on a weekend.
SPEAKER_2: I remember I played weeks on Command and Conquer.
SPEAKER_2: Because in the later missions, I had to try it like six times.
SPEAKER_2: Like holy cow.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, after Command and Conquer one, it is difficult.
SPEAKER_4: Mission four, mission five, they are very, very difficult ones.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, same in Tiberian Sun.
SPEAKER_4: Tiberian Sun, it is very difficult.
SPEAKER_4: Those trained missions with the alien spaceship, oh man, pain in the ass.
SPEAKER_4: You had to learn it by memory.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_2: In some missions, I won because I only had one ship on the sea that could reach an enemy on the ground at land.
SPEAKER_2: So I was like, wow, I have one unit left and with this one unit, I won the mission.
SPEAKER_2: That was so amazing.
SPEAKER_4: I remember one red alert mission that you had to bring, you end up without resources.
SPEAKER_4: You have to have a transport boat, put the harvester inside the transport boat, go to another island that was full of resources, pick it up.
SPEAKER_4: It's like another task to do, while they start sending submarines and attacking your base.
SPEAKER_4: It was very hard.
SPEAKER_4: Imagine playing that on PlayStation 1, because red alert wasn't PlayStation 1.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, it was hard games.
SPEAKER_4: You have to do it easy, because there are people who want to play like this, and then you have to make it hard also because they want people to play like very concentrative as well.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, I know there is a threat on Steam about Tempest Rising.
SPEAKER_2: Please include GamePad support.
SPEAKER_2: And somebody asked, do you also want Aim Assist?
SPEAKER_4: I think that Tempest Risen, after the Frost Shrine game, how was called, the Frost Shrine game?
SPEAKER_4: This other RTS that the-
SPEAKER_2: Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: We spoke about it the other day, and I told you what it was, but I totally forgot about it.
SPEAKER_4: You always forget the names of the games.
SPEAKER_4: Oh, I have it here.
SPEAKER_2: Is that Chinese RTS?
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Stormgate?
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, Stormgate.
SPEAKER_4: It was like a Stormgate and Trepest Rising were like rivals and like the RTS fans, core multiplayer core fans.
SPEAKER_4: Was like these two games are the best one, and Stormgate didn't went well.
SPEAKER_4: Basically, because I think they start asking a lot of money.
SPEAKER_4: It was free, but if you want to play more, you have to pay.
SPEAKER_4: And then the story wasn't that good.
SPEAKER_4: The game works perfectly, but like that, and now all the, how you say, the hope, it is facing into Tempest Rise.
SPEAKER_4: Those multiplayer RTS hope is in there.
SPEAKER_4: I think that it will go very well.
SPEAKER_2: I'm pretty sure about that as well.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: So will you release it?
SPEAKER_2: Will you release your game before or after April?
SPEAKER_4: I think the demo before, before, yes.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, but the final game much later the year, I guess.
SPEAKER_4: Well, I think that the idea is to drop the early access some month after the demo.
SPEAKER_4: So we have like at the moment, we have like six mission from each faction almost ready.
SPEAKER_4: We have three more from good, the maps already done, we have to end.
SPEAKER_4: Yesterday, a new map guy, a map designer started working with us, so we are going faster.
SPEAKER_4: There is not much code to work on, like all the difficult stuff are already done.
SPEAKER_4: So sooner we will be all to make maps and testing, all the team.
SPEAKER_4: So the idea is to drop the demo free, and some month later drop the early acts.
SPEAKER_2: So around May, perhaps?
SPEAKER_4: Maybe.
SPEAKER_2: Now the question is, you mentioned there's not so much code left and so on.
SPEAKER_2: So are you using your own engine or are you using some something known?
SPEAKER_4: We use Unity, Unity.
SPEAKER_2: Unity, Unity.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, and we make all the missions, we make them the title.
SPEAKER_4: So if you want, you could make a mission.
SPEAKER_4: Very easy.
SPEAKER_4: Very.
SPEAKER_2: That answers the question if you offer mod support.
SPEAKER_4: We, you know, everything, you have to do it and it takes time.
SPEAKER_4: We want people to take our game and do whatever they want with it and we will help them.
SPEAKER_4: And some day we will do it.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know how to do it, you know, but we want to.
SPEAKER_4: It's like Warcraft 3, you know.
SPEAKER_4: From Warcraft 3 and StarCraft 1, multiplayer, a lot of stuff came from there.
SPEAKER_4: People love to make their own mods, they learn, they help.
SPEAKER_4: And we, on that part, we are very, very open to allow people to do whatever they want.
SPEAKER_2: Awesome, awesome.
SPEAKER_2: So let me ask you, because interestingly, that was also the reason what Brendan told me why they don't do real actors, FMV.
SPEAKER_2: He said, it's pretty difficult to do all the filming and all the customs, all the clothes and so on.
SPEAKER_2: But how did you resolve that?
SPEAKER_2: Do you have a studio somewhere where you actually could record the...
SPEAKER_4: We recorded it in the studio, with actors, director, sound guy, camera guy and stuff.
SPEAKER_2: Wow, okay.
SPEAKER_4: We do it the cheapest possible way, and we did it in three days.
SPEAKER_4: We recorded everything in three days.
SPEAKER_2: Wow, that must have been three heavy days, from morning till night.
SPEAKER_4: Very, very fun days.
SPEAKER_4: It was fun to do it, you know?
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: Actually, we might have like tons of gigabytes of recordings of the backstage, and the story will be long.
SPEAKER_4: It is very, how you say, weird, absurd.
SPEAKER_4: It is serious, but it's very absurd, you know?
SPEAKER_4: It will be fun.
SPEAKER_4: I guess it will be fun.
SPEAKER_4: It will add something that other games aren't doing.
SPEAKER_4: I think when you record something, you can change it.
SPEAKER_4: If you do it in 3D, you can change it.
SPEAKER_4: If you are a gaming company, you don't know how to make movies, it will be hard for you.
SPEAKER_4: I studied movies when I was young, you know, to make movies.
SPEAKER_4: I knew a little bit about it, but we delegate almost everything.
SPEAKER_4: But the story, maybe I wrote like 80 percent of the story, and the other 20 percent, I got some help.
SPEAKER_4: It's not hard, but I think in USA, it is very expensive because I learned the cache of an actor in USA, in Spain, in Argentina, in Uruguay.
SPEAKER_4: In USA, the minimum is $200,000.
SPEAKER_4: And here in Uruguay, we paid $200.
SPEAKER_2: Oh wow, okay.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: Michael Byrne is in Tiberian Sun.
SPEAKER_4: He's acting in Tiberian Sun.
SPEAKER_4: In Red Alert 2, you have the Eat Clown guy.
SPEAKER_4: Those guys, maybe $200,000 each one.
SPEAKER_4: Maybe I'm not telling the truth, but imagine, you know.
SPEAKER_4: So, and one, how you say, Tempest Rising employee.
SPEAKER_4: I have studied and learned how much they earn on England, on Europe, on East Coast, West Coast, USA, Germany, how much engineer earns in Germany.
SPEAKER_4: And for what one engineer earns in Germany per year, a good engineer, the same amount of money, I made Dying Breed.
SPEAKER_4: It's like that.
SPEAKER_4: One guy in First World is a team of 50 people in South America.
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: And how you say, we didn't knew anything and we had to start to learn.
SPEAKER_2: From scratch.
SPEAKER_4: Actually, we have a German engineer.
SPEAKER_4: Then he left, we paid like Uruguay and we couldn't hold it.
SPEAKER_4: Now here, it's like six times more, you know.
SPEAKER_4: It is difficult here, but it can be done, you know.
SPEAKER_4: And the start, I didn't trust Uruguayan devs, but then as I advanced, I started trusting them.
SPEAKER_4: It could take more time to do it, but they end up doing it, you know.
SPEAKER_4: Maybe with $200,000 a year, Eero's engineer, you do something one, two or three months.
SPEAKER_4: And here in Uruguay, we see someone who earns like $12,000 a year, you do it in four, six or eight months, you know.
SPEAKER_4: It is, you say you can compare Dying Breed and Tempest Rising.
SPEAKER_4: Tempest Rising was done with love and all the money in the world, and Dying Breed, it was made with love and almost no money.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Well, I mean, all the money in the world, I'm not so sure about that.
SPEAKER_2: I mean, they switched publishers in between, you know.
SPEAKER_4: I didn't think you that.
SPEAKER_4: I saw that there are like a lot of companies working in Tempest Rising.
SPEAKER_4: But I truly think that it's a million, lot of millions of dollars budget, you know.
SPEAKER_2: I never asked if it wasn't the millions, to be honest.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, there are a lot of millions of dollars.
SPEAKER_2: I can say the original publisher was THQ Nordic.
SPEAKER_2: And from what I know, what I heard actually in the press, in the media was that THQ Nordic set to them a release date.
SPEAKER_2: They would have to release the game.
SPEAKER_2: And they said, no, we want still to work on it.
SPEAKER_2: So THQ Nordic did let them go.
SPEAKER_2: And now they are actually published by Saber Interactive.
SPEAKER_2: And then a few weeks ago, Saber Interactive announced that they will have a co-publisher called Night's Peak.
SPEAKER_4: So I do know that Cyber owns THQ, I think, or something like that, and Embracer Group owned Saber.
SPEAKER_4: But then Saber bought itself from Embracer Group.
SPEAKER_4: So maybe it happened something like that.
SPEAKER_4: But they are very optimistic about their game, and I think they wait till it was really good.
SPEAKER_4: And Stormgates, Flob, they are like the last.
SPEAKER_4: There are other good games coming, other good, how you say, high-budget RTS game.
SPEAKER_2: We will see about that, we will see about that.
SPEAKER_2: So, let me ask you, how do you actually go about designing a mission?
SPEAKER_2: What is your starting point?
SPEAKER_3: Paper.
SPEAKER_4: Paper?
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: And then the idea just floats onto the paper, magically or something.
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: I could share you some pictures after, I guess, and you could paste it in the edition.
SPEAKER_4: Sure.
SPEAKER_4: Very, you know, we did everything using Tile.
SPEAKER_4: And we have a lot of layers.
SPEAKER_4: And then we put the instructions, like triggers, patrols, aggro, inside Tile.
SPEAKER_4: And then that was imported by Unity.
SPEAKER_4: You test everything is okay.
SPEAKER_4: You have a mission.
SPEAKER_4: You could make one mission per day if you want.
SPEAKER_4: With like three people working eight hours full time, you could do it.
SPEAKER_4: And then you have to test it and something like that, and one week, it's done.
SPEAKER_4: And we are aiming that at the moment, like at the map factory.
SPEAKER_4: Before I used to make the maps, I basically do the structures, the division, or mountains, or rivers.
SPEAKER_4: I used to make them entited, but as I'm not an artist, they look very ugly, you know.
SPEAKER_4: Then I gave it to an artist, and the artist make it prettier.
SPEAKER_4: But the structure, I made the structure, yes.
SPEAKER_4: Basically, I made them.
SPEAKER_4: And now they are more freedom.
SPEAKER_4: Freedom, because I have to delegate more stuff as we have a publisher, we got bigger, you know.
SPEAKER_4: But it is fun, you know.
SPEAKER_4: It's like you have like eight kind of missions.
SPEAKER_4: Destroy these, protect that, kill everything.
SPEAKER_4: Don't let everything kill.
SPEAKER_4: You say, save these people, escape from these.
SPEAKER_4: Don't let them escape.
SPEAKER_4: It's like you grab all the Come and Conquer games, protect the Red Alert 3 mission from the good guys, was protect the convoys, you know.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_2: Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_2: Or survive the next wave or something.
SPEAKER_2: Then you have a timer going down, and the AI tries to destroy your base, and you try to protect yourself.
SPEAKER_4: You start without base, you find a base, your base can do soldiers or your base can do vehicles.
SPEAKER_4: They will attack you with vehicle.
SPEAKER_4: You don't have air defenses, so they will attack you with air.
SPEAKER_4: Air is like that.
SPEAKER_4: They give you, how you say, tanks, so they will attack you with bazooka or the tanks.
SPEAKER_4: They give you soldiers, so the evil guys will attack you with fire, tanks, stuff like that.
SPEAKER_4: The missions are done like that.
SPEAKER_4: You grab some units of the evil sides.
SPEAKER_4: The evil sides always will have more tech than you.
SPEAKER_4: I mean the enemy.
SPEAKER_4: If you are the good guys, the enemy will have more tech than you.
SPEAKER_4: If you are the bad guys, the enemy will have more tech than you.
SPEAKER_4: Right.
SPEAKER_4: It is like that.
SPEAKER_4: As it is in single player, it's very different from multiplayer.
SPEAKER_4: I think that multiplayer RTS games are impossible to balance.
SPEAKER_4: Always someone will find a way to take down all the balance.
SPEAKER_4: It's happening in all the games.
SPEAKER_4: They call them exploits.
SPEAKER_2: Exploits, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Like the famous tank rush attack.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, you have like, yes.
SPEAKER_4: A lot of stuff, there is a lot of stuff.
SPEAKER_2: Or those famous stupid harvester, Tiberium harvester.
SPEAKER_4: We do have stupid harvester.
SPEAKER_4: Today, I found like three harvester going around like this.
SPEAKER_3: They often make a video, it's like what are they doing?
SPEAKER_3: Right.
SPEAKER_4: It was like four harvester trying to go to the same place.
SPEAKER_4: And they have an obstacle in the middle.
SPEAKER_4: So it was like an obstacle and some substance, some mineral here, them to grab.
SPEAKER_4: It was like, but yeah, it was very fun.
SPEAKER_4: And actually, fans are asking for a stupid harvester, you know?
SPEAKER_4: Really?
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Those things that make the game like, where is my harvester?
SPEAKER_3: Why I don't have money?
SPEAKER_3: Where is my harvester?
SPEAKER_2: Exactly.
SPEAKER_2: I remember because Tiberium at some point was depleted and then the harvester just stops.
SPEAKER_2: But when the Tiberium recrew, it didn't resume collecting.
SPEAKER_2: You had to manually put it on the field again, like, man, in front of you, right there, don't you see it?
SPEAKER_4: You know?
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, I love those games.
SPEAKER_4: Commodore Compro was my old-time favorite game, you know?
SPEAKER_4: It stuck in my mind, you know?
SPEAKER_4: I dream with stuff like that.
SPEAKER_4: As I say, when I have 10 years, I designed it again.
SPEAKER_4: It was actually more similar to Age of Empires, it was something in.
SPEAKER_4: And I imagine the game in my head, it's like in first you have to build your city, walls, defense, and then go to war, you know?
SPEAKER_4: It's like those nomads with 15 minutes of ceasefire, Age of Empires game, multiplayer, you know?
SPEAKER_4: First you build up your defenses and then, okay, let's, and I imagine like that, and I remember it was like the same year we learned about the MASHIC, MASHIC, the cards games, and it was like with cards and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know, I think I was creative with that.
SPEAKER_4: I used to invent games with friends.
SPEAKER_4: I have two games inventing with friends, which we still play them.
SPEAKER_2: You mean card games, yes?
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, something like that, or words, words, words game, like you sit in, you talk, and you make like a game only with words.
SPEAKER_4: And so I came back to the beginning, you know, and then it's good, I change, I was a salesman before, I was a good salesman.
SPEAKER_2: And now you're hopefully a good game developer.
SPEAKER_4: Oh, yeah, I hope I have to be successful first, but yes, I think that I introduce myself inside the industry now, and no one will take me out of here.
SPEAKER_2: No, I don't think so either.
SPEAKER_2: One question, though.
SPEAKER_2: You said at the beginning you will start early access on Steam.
SPEAKER_2: What is the reason behind going with early access?
SPEAKER_4: I think that is good for indie companies in the go early access.
SPEAKER_4: I think after demo, we will have a lot of feedback from our fans.
SPEAKER_4: And sometimes you have to do what the fans say to you.
SPEAKER_4: Or like the feedback of the fans is what you say.
SPEAKER_4: If you have already something in mind and some fans tell you the same thing you have already in mind, you have to do it, you know.
SPEAKER_4: That's for people.
SPEAKER_4: And what, because I promised 15 mission from each faction, and we made intros and outro video from 30 missions.
SPEAKER_4: Also, it went like more big, the game went more big that I thought it was going to be.
SPEAKER_4: And the early access is, I think it's good for indie developers.
SPEAKER_4: It's like we will keep on working on the game.
SPEAKER_4: We won't drop it in Steam and then abandon it.
SPEAKER_4: We will keep on working.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: It is good, I think, because it's like people like us.
SPEAKER_4: You have not much 17 years old guys.
SPEAKER_4: Like near 40, they know what they want.
SPEAKER_4: They want to come and conquer one again.
SPEAKER_4: They don't want some other.
SPEAKER_4: Some people, some fans do it like this, do it like that.
SPEAKER_4: It's like, okay, some modern things we could put on Dying Breed.
SPEAKER_4: But some others, no.
SPEAKER_4: I remember Age of Empire 1.
SPEAKER_4: You could only make one person or one soldiers at the time.
SPEAKER_4: In the expansion, the other to make more than one.
SPEAKER_4: Those stuff, yes.
SPEAKER_4: Other stuff, no.
SPEAKER_4: If you want to play, it's like a game.
SPEAKER_4: Imagine that you're 30 years behind in technology, and we are nearly entering the 19s in North America and Europe.
SPEAKER_4: So we made the game the same way or inspired on how the games were made before.
SPEAKER_4: And I think we are the only game that make this.
SPEAKER_4: You know, I have talked with some RTS YouTubers, and there are nearly 300 RTS games being made at this moment.
SPEAKER_4: So back to the branch of the tree, you have also the space RTS game.
SPEAKER_4: And you know, it's like there is a lot of things.
SPEAKER_4: It's like, it's not new fans coming out.
SPEAKER_4: I think that they are all fans coming back to...
SPEAKER_4: As I say, I play Dota, I play LoL, I don't play any more LoL, it's horrible.
SPEAKER_4: It's like never, never more.
SPEAKER_4: I played two years, I was very good in League of Legends.
SPEAKER_4: I remember when...
SPEAKER_4: Oh, sorry, we wanted to say something.
SPEAKER_2: No, no, I just wanted to say, so you are not targeting the young audience, because you said you don't really point the game toward them.
SPEAKER_2: As I said, it's mostly for people who know what they want, right?
SPEAKER_2: Who have experience in RTS games.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_4: It's like the Dying Breed tutorial is, have you played Command and Conquer?
SPEAKER_4: There are 17 years old players.
SPEAKER_4: I have talked, they love the game, but it is very difficult to reach them.
SPEAKER_4: Because you have, I don't know, the other companies going through them and spending a lot of money.
SPEAKER_2: Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_4: Try to reach them.
SPEAKER_4: Dying Breed is shadow banning.
SPEAKER_4: Facebook is like, I read from our owner of the group in Facebook, saying something like, there are 100,000 people on my server, and every post only goes reach 500,000.
SPEAKER_2: Right, right.
SPEAKER_4: Like people don't allow, and it separates from songs or stuff, makes different groups, and they shadow ban you.
SPEAKER_4: So I remember one guy that played demos, loved it, wrote me a letter via Reddit, saying that he played the game with his seven years old son, and that the seven years old son loved the game so much.
SPEAKER_4: What he was loving was seeing his father.
SPEAKER_4: Like, you know?
SPEAKER_4: And the kid go to the class and talk about all the class, about this game called Dying Breed.
SPEAKER_4: You know?
SPEAKER_4: Okay, if that happens, but I have a daughter, and now the kids, I don't think they will be like before.
SPEAKER_2: So, you trust in Word of Mouth.
SPEAKER_4: It will be Mouth to Mouth.
SPEAKER_4: It was a Mouth to Mouth game, I think, yes.
SPEAKER_4: Because if not, you have to spend a lot of money.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, I mean, now that we reached the year 2025, there are a lot of discussions how much PC games should generally cost this year.
SPEAKER_2: There's one fraction who says, they hope that GTA 6 will make $100, the new normal.
SPEAKER_2: And, you know, I'm like, what?
SPEAKER_2: $100 for a game?
SPEAKER_2: Holy cow!
SPEAKER_2: I don't know.
SPEAKER_4: So, it's weird.
SPEAKER_4: My Apple guy, Steve Jobs, when you give the power to the advertising guys, and not the engineer or the sales team, and not the engineers, he has spent $400 million on games that have flopped, like Concord or something like that.
SPEAKER_4: These games with, I don't know, very expensive games that no one is playing.
SPEAKER_4: No one is playing.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_4: Throwing out the money.
SPEAKER_2: Well, so I guess I will see how much you will want for the game.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Well, I always thought $10, then it went up to $15, then it went up to $20.
SPEAKER_4: Now I'm thinking more of $15.
SPEAKER_4: People tell me like, no, you have to put it expensive and then make a lot of, how you say, sales.
SPEAKER_4: Others tell me like, no, if you put it expensive, no one will buy it.
SPEAKER_2: It depends.
SPEAKER_2: It depends, I guess.
SPEAKER_2: It depends.
SPEAKER_2: You know, as I'm really much looking forward to Dying Breed, because it's really something I'm looking forward to, I wouldn't really mind so much to that.
SPEAKER_2: But of course, you're right.
SPEAKER_2: Then you make it expensive, then of course, people will be more hesitant, especially those who didn't plan buying the game in the first place.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, and also you have like other RTS games that are much better than Dying Breed.
SPEAKER_2: I'm not so sure.
SPEAKER_2: I mean, look what happened recently.
SPEAKER_2: For example, you had Crossfire Legion, that they simply stopped updating at some point, and it left the skirmish mode broken basically.
SPEAKER_2: So, you never know, you never know.
SPEAKER_4: That was a big game, right?
SPEAKER_2: That was quite a big game.
SPEAKER_2: But, well, you know, it's basically a problem.
SPEAKER_2: And that is basically, if it's not reaching the expectation of sales, how could you reason to say, we are still putting effort in patching it, you know?
SPEAKER_2: That's, I don't know, it's pretty difficult.
SPEAKER_4: It depends on the company, you know?
SPEAKER_4: If it's a big company and those employees earn a lot of money, and the game is, at the end of time, it's a money thing, you know?
SPEAKER_2: You know, but the thing is, the average gamer on Steam, they don't think in triple A, double A, indie studio, big publisher, you know?
SPEAKER_2: They don't think in those things.
SPEAKER_2: You know, every time, every time I watch, I look in the Steam forums for a certain game, and that is only released in English, for example.
SPEAKER_2: There will always be somebody complaining.
SPEAKER_2: I remember when in December 2023, Rogue City was released, end of 2023.
SPEAKER_2: Robocop, Rogue City, people were like, why is there only English?
SPEAKER_2: Why is there no French or German translation, or Spanish or Italian?
SPEAKER_2: And I'm like, man, this game is done by a double A studio, not even a big company.
SPEAKER_4: I think if you start making the game, thinking of the translation, it is easier than adding it after all.
SPEAKER_4: And those countries, you name it, are also the countries that were used to play games in their native language, you know?
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_4: Polish guys are used to play games on German or English.
SPEAKER_4: Russian guys are also German or English, you know?
SPEAKER_4: Because nobody translated games into Russian or, I don't know, Turkish, Chinese.
SPEAKER_4: Now it's like changing.
SPEAKER_4: Everything is changing.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_4: We have a lot of fans from Singapore, Malaysia and Vietnam.
SPEAKER_2: Vietnam?
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: They even use a different, how you say, alphabet.
SPEAKER_4: They are like a shadow of living.
SPEAKER_2: That's true.
SPEAKER_2: Vietnamese has their own.
SPEAKER_2: That's true.
SPEAKER_4: What to do?
SPEAKER_4: Yes, I would love to translate all the games.
SPEAKER_4: Actually, we start the translation with, how you say, fans that help us.
SPEAKER_4: We did translate the Steam page to 10 languages also, I guess.
SPEAKER_4: It is, but everything takes time and time is fun.
SPEAKER_2: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: My thing is always, since I'm an adult and I learned English nowadays, I'm like, who cares?
SPEAKER_2: I understand it anyway.
SPEAKER_2: And when I heard that RoboCop is spoken by Peter Weller, the original actor, I was like, wow, that's great, you know?
SPEAKER_2: Because let's be honest, if you want to have the translation in all those countries I mentioned, you also need to hire the original voice actors.
SPEAKER_2: Because if you don't, then people will be like, why is the voice different from what I remember from the 80s?
SPEAKER_2: And in some cases, people are already dead, you know?
SPEAKER_2: It's like, I don't know, you know, it's always like, you never can satisfy everybody.
SPEAKER_4: That's the problem.
SPEAKER_4: It's impossible.
SPEAKER_2: It's impossible.
SPEAKER_4: You know, you can convert a hater also.
SPEAKER_4: Because if someone takes his time on writing something negative about your game, I only think that it's like they imagine your game as theirs, and they will love to put their ideas inside your game.
SPEAKER_4: So you can convert them by answering and telling like, yes, you're right, and I have made this a lot of time before Publisher, and it's like, yes, you are right.
SPEAKER_4: You are telling the true and you're right, but this takes times and times take money, and we're still a small company.
SPEAKER_4: We want to do this, you could say this.
SPEAKER_4: Also, about the only English games, like English is the easiest language ever.
SPEAKER_4: It's very easy to learn, very easy to understand, and it is like the world language, world, how you say, diplomacy language at the moment.
SPEAKER_2: The international communication language, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, now you are back.
SPEAKER_2: You have been away for a second.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, so the international communication language.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Exactly, yes.
SPEAKER_4: Right.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, we have a lot of fans from USA, Russia, Germany, England, it's like Australia also, Canada.
SPEAKER_4: I remember a guy, I showed the stats to that guy, and he was, oh, you are so lucky.
SPEAKER_4: Those are all the countries who pay the games expensive.
SPEAKER_4: Because I did buy Tempest Rising just now, and when I buy it, it was, oh my God, it's so cheap.
SPEAKER_4: It's like, it can't be the same that Dying Breed, it can't cost the same that Dying Breed.
SPEAKER_4: Then I entered SteamDB, and of course, in Uruguay, it was half price than in other countries.
SPEAKER_2: Ah, but still, still, still, it's not that expensive, surprisingly.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, it's not that expensive.
SPEAKER_2: You're right.
SPEAKER_4: I am truly, truly, truly sure that they went the opposite of Stormgate.
SPEAKER_4: Stormgate went greedy.
SPEAKER_4: We live in Hollywood.
SPEAKER_4: We have mansions.
SPEAKER_4: They went even asking money to invest in their company.
SPEAKER_4: Ex-Blizzard, Ex-Blizzard, creator of this game, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
SPEAKER_4: It will be free, it will be free.
SPEAKER_4: Kickstart the campaign.
SPEAKER_4: You will have all these, then changing.
SPEAKER_4: No, no, you have to pay again.
SPEAKER_4: It was a free game, and now it is a $60 game, something like that, if you buy everything separated.
SPEAKER_4: You can be against your fans.
SPEAKER_4: Something went wrong with some, I think it was like this, we will have the best RTS game in the world, because we have the best people in the world.
SPEAKER_4: In actually, the game works perfectly.
SPEAKER_4: The multiplayer, the late, everything, it is awesome.
SPEAKER_4: But there is something in the game that has failed.
SPEAKER_4: I can't say what, I can't blame anything.
SPEAKER_4: It's a big company, a lot of people deciding, people with the money on the top, telling the creator what to do.
SPEAKER_4: I think that Tempest Rising learned about it, and they went the opposite.
SPEAKER_4: Let's not make fans mad with us.
SPEAKER_4: Let's make it from the start, and then we could take a little bit money from now to 10 years.
SPEAKER_4: Okay, buy these and you will have that.
SPEAKER_4: Nothing to make the game easier to beat, because only something like make it beautiful for you or something like that.
SPEAKER_4: And I think they were good for them.
SPEAKER_2: Another idea I've always read is like, if you don't have money for the translation, make it to DLC.
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: Another question is, imagine you are the player and you are like, why should I pay, why should I pay, let's say, 15 euros for DLC to have the game in this Spanish voiceover?
SPEAKER_2: Then I guarantee you, people will be complaining, why it's not part of the game?
SPEAKER_4: I am against DLC.
SPEAKER_2: You are against them?
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: But I am pro expansion.
SPEAKER_4: I saw an interview from one guy from Age of Empires who once said, let's make an expansion.
SPEAKER_4: And the guy in the talk was, are you an imbecile?
SPEAKER_4: How are you going to do that?
SPEAKER_4: And the guy was, we have already made all the code, all the expensive part.
SPEAKER_4: We only change the story, add some art?
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: Someone listened to him and told him, okay, do the expansion.
SPEAKER_4: Age of Empires once sold 3 million copies, and the expansion, who cost like 10% of the original, sold 1 million copies.
SPEAKER_4: And that was a change, you know?
SPEAKER_4: Adding language could be free, should be free.
SPEAKER_4: Also, it could boost your sales elsewhere.
SPEAKER_4: But make an expansion, yes, you could sell the expansion, not at the same price of the original, but yes, I don't know, if the original cost $15, you could sell it $5.
SPEAKER_4: And you could have some mission extra, some units, some story.
SPEAKER_2: But now the question is, now the question is, does it really change so much the sales figures in the long run?
SPEAKER_2: Because, for example, if you look at the statistics between 2015 and now, 10 years later, in Colombia, for example, there is a 35 degree in English fluency.
SPEAKER_2: And there are more English teachers than ever, more tourism.
SPEAKER_2: So that also means that the uprising generation will be more used in consuming English speaking stuff.
SPEAKER_2: So that means the old generation that only speaks Spanish will die out in the end.
SPEAKER_2: So it shouldn't in the long run, in 10 years, I don't know, it shouldn't make such a big of a difference anymore.
SPEAKER_2: That's just my opinion.
SPEAKER_4: Yes, yes, it is true with Spanish.
SPEAKER_4: Us Spanish speakers are very used to speak in English.
SPEAKER_4: Also with Brazilian Portuguese speakers, we used to talk in English.
SPEAKER_1: It's easier to talk in English with a guy in Brazil, than them talking in Portuguese and us talking in Spanish.
SPEAKER_1: But we have French players.
SPEAKER_1: French players, 70, 70, 80% of French players only play games in French.
SPEAKER_1: That's why, because they hate English, because of the war, they are protected with their language.
SPEAKER_1: Same happened with Italian, or even Spanish from Spain, you know.
SPEAKER_2: That's true.
SPEAKER_2: I very often on the internet come across people from Spain who are like, I don't know English.
SPEAKER_2: I'm like, man, you are 20.
SPEAKER_2: Are you serious?
SPEAKER_2: You are 20.
SPEAKER_1: Because Franco, the dictator on Spain made mandatory to translate by voice every movie, every everything to protect the language.
SPEAKER_1: You know, there are 800 million people that talk Spanish, you know.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_1: But it's just a thing in the English.
SPEAKER_1: Even China has 400 million of English speakers, you know.
SPEAKER_1: They may speak bad English, but it's the country with the most English speakers in the world.
SPEAKER_1: So you know, it is complex, I think.
SPEAKER_2: So the short answer is, you are not sure yet how you will proceed with that.
SPEAKER_1: I want to translate the game to almost every language possible.
SPEAKER_2: So you will have to hire a lot of voice-over artists.
SPEAKER_1: Not voice, only words.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, but you know, the people that I'm talking about, they want voice actors, not subtitles.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_1: The game could be done like it was in the 80s, behind the Iron Curtain, that there are some countries that had only one guy translating.
SPEAKER_2: Exactly.
SPEAKER_2: I saw that, yes.
SPEAKER_1: Yes, yes, I could do it.
SPEAKER_2: One guy talking every role, and even with the same voice, and I was like, holy crap, are you serious?
SPEAKER_1: Yes, exactly that.
SPEAKER_1: Yes, it could be done.
SPEAKER_1: Again, takes time.
SPEAKER_1: And we have also like a to-do list, the to-do list.
SPEAKER_1: There is a lot of stuff going on, and it is always on, always postponed.
SPEAKER_2: I mean, just one example, I guess one of the most known kids show in the world is probably The Sesame Street, right?
SPEAKER_2: And The Sesame Street, you never heard of that?
SPEAKER_1: I know it, but I've never seen it in my life here.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: But The Sesame Street, yeah, that's probably because in Latin American countries, it's only shown in pay TV.
SPEAKER_2: But anyway, in The Sesame Street, you can YouTube, you can look in YouTube, there is a character called The Count.
SPEAKER_2: And every time The Count is coming to the screen, he is always saying, I am The Count and I like to count, you know?
SPEAKER_2: And being a child from Germany, I always thought, why is there a count on the screen?
SPEAKER_2: That likes to count, that doesn't make sense.
SPEAKER_2: And just when I learned the English original, I learned like, wow, now it makes sense, because count and count, it's a wordplay.
SPEAKER_2: A count who likes to count, you know?
SPEAKER_2: But in the translation, this thing is totally lost, totally.
SPEAKER_1: If you see Alice in Wonderland, the movie, it has a translation from Spain, from Spanish, from Spain, and another translation from Spanish, from Mexico, which is more neutral translation.
SPEAKER_1: In the Spanish, from Spain, it starts the mother of Alice start talking about Colon and about the discovery of America, you know?
SPEAKER_1: And in the original English version, they are talking about someone, some guy from England, you know?
SPEAKER_1: That's how the protector, the change.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_1: But it was really odd.
SPEAKER_1: I remember looking, Ace Ventura won.
SPEAKER_1: You saw when they found out the cop, the lady cop is actually a man, a trainee.
SPEAKER_1: The translation in Spanish was like, how do you say, censored.
SPEAKER_1: So I never in my life, and that part was also censored.
SPEAKER_1: I don't know, the church had more power at that time.
SPEAKER_1: So I never understood in my life, the end of Ace Ventura 1, till I was like grown up, because they censored that part.
SPEAKER_1: So it was different back then.
SPEAKER_1: And I guess you're right now, everyone know English, and if you don't know English, you should learn like, or Chinese or Portuguese, because you can learn a lot of things.
SPEAKER_2: I don't know, I always thought, I always thought it's a sign of good education, and you know, and being open to the world, and that was just me, you know.
SPEAKER_2: I don't know, perhaps I'm wrong.
SPEAKER_2: I know I insulted once somebody from French, because I said like English is the most important language, and they're totally pissed, they were totally pissed.
SPEAKER_2: I'm like, okay.
SPEAKER_1: Before, the diplomatic language was French.
SPEAKER_2: I know.
SPEAKER_1: The science language was German, you know.
SPEAKER_1: It's all changed to English, because it is so easy English.
SPEAKER_1: The English language has four times less words than Spanish.
SPEAKER_2: Okay, I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, anyway.
SPEAKER_2: So, can you tell me, do you have a goal?
SPEAKER_2: Is it before Christmas?
SPEAKER_2: Will you have the...
SPEAKER_2: All right.
SPEAKER_1: We are getting close.
SPEAKER_1: You can only know that.
SPEAKER_1: We are getting close.
SPEAKER_1: We fixed all the big issues.
SPEAKER_1: We fixed them.
SPEAKER_1: Now, it is like a lot of details, balancing, range of attack, damage, speed of attack, life, HP, speed, movement speed, size of the mass, but all the structure, you say, the engineer is almost done.
SPEAKER_1: So we are very close.
SPEAKER_1: Remember, we are still a small team.
SPEAKER_1: Everyone but one in Dying Breed have more than one shops, so they all work part-time.
SPEAKER_1: And if they gave me like, how do you say, I could do a Dying Breed with the knowledge I know I have now of everything.
SPEAKER_1: I could do it.
SPEAKER_1: If I do it again, I would do it in two years.
SPEAKER_1: And if I have people working 24 all day, it's another thing.
SPEAKER_1: But imagine we started working on weekends.
SPEAKER_1: I have to go with my car, pick up the guys, bring to my house, working, learning.
SPEAKER_1: Then I get them to their house again.
SPEAKER_1: Because if I didn't pick them up, they arrived late.
SPEAKER_1: Because we're all kids.
SPEAKER_1: And now, like I know professional people, hardworking people.
SPEAKER_1: But in the end, it's all about money.
SPEAKER_1: Because people like to live nicely.
SPEAKER_1: I learned a lot and I love doing it.
SPEAKER_1: We are already making a second game and we will announce it soon enough.
SPEAKER_1: It has nothing to do with Dying Breed or from our bankers.
SPEAKER_1: And hopefully, we will start designing a third game soon enough.
SPEAKER_1: Maybe in a month, maybe in two months.
SPEAKER_1: And now I'm more like a producer, game designer.
SPEAKER_1: Before, I was everything, I did everything.
SPEAKER_1: And now I'm more like a producer.
SPEAKER_1: I have the ideas from the team.
SPEAKER_1: I get the money, the budget, the publisher.
SPEAKER_1: I love this.
SPEAKER_1: I love doing this.
SPEAKER_2: For the other two games, will it also be MicroProse or a different publisher?
SPEAKER_1: Oh, I don't know.
SPEAKER_1: Maybe, maybe not.
SPEAKER_1: Wait to wait to the release for the release.
SPEAKER_1: I helped seven games last year to get published, you know, and I didn't ask money to anyone.
SPEAKER_1: I was like, okay, help you.
SPEAKER_1: I like your game.
SPEAKER_1: I want to help you.
SPEAKER_1: Some people I like, I tried to help.
SPEAKER_1: They didn't believe it or they went like, I don't know.
SPEAKER_1: I don't know you.
SPEAKER_1: It's like, well, I like your game.
SPEAKER_1: If you want me, I can help you.
SPEAKER_1: I got a lot of Uruguayan gets jobs in the exterior.
SPEAKER_1: You know, you are a good guy and you are honest and help people and then they will help you back and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_1: I go forward.
SPEAKER_2: It's a good attitude.
SPEAKER_1: I'm not motivated by money.
SPEAKER_1: I mean, I want money.
SPEAKER_1: I want it.
SPEAKER_1: My daughter goes to expensive school.
SPEAKER_1: In my family, you don't save money on education.
SPEAKER_1: It's education.
SPEAKER_1: I make my own food.
SPEAKER_1: I don't ask for food or go out anymore.
SPEAKER_1: And I truly now wants to go out from house.
SPEAKER_1: I'm all day in my house alone.
SPEAKER_1: And it's very tiring to be alone.
SPEAKER_1: And I want to have an office.
SPEAKER_1: And if you have an office and have all the workers there, employees, how you say, associate, you go faster.
SPEAKER_1: One must continue forward and don't get distracted.
SPEAKER_1: I don't know.
SPEAKER_1: This is going forward.
SPEAKER_1: You know, and in MicroProse, I have told to people to play.
SPEAKER_1: One working in postal game.
SPEAKER_1: You remember postal game?
SPEAKER_1: One MicroProse employee working in postal.
SPEAKER_1: Another one working in, I always, Dark Rain.
SPEAKER_1: I always forget that.
SPEAKER_1: You remember Dark Rain from Activision.
SPEAKER_1: It was an Australian game.
SPEAKER_1: Diablo 2, you know, World of Warcraft, and I am there with them.
SPEAKER_1: We are local monsters of the industry, big guys.
SPEAKER_1: When I am there with them, we talk like we, for me, it's incredible.
SPEAKER_1: I never, when the whole MicroBros owner taught me, it was like, okay, yes, you got me.
SPEAKER_1: I just want to have next to my name MicroBros there.
SPEAKER_1: And it's like that, yes.
SPEAKER_2: Awesome.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: I'm very happy for you, very glad that you found a publisher that you are happy with, and obviously success, and I'm looking forward to see the game into early access later on.
SPEAKER_2: So where can people find out more about the game?
SPEAKER_1: When?
SPEAKER_2: Where?
SPEAKER_2: Where can people find out more?
SPEAKER_1: Well, I was very active in my Twitter account.
SPEAKER_1: I was very active in Reddit.
SPEAKER_1: Now I am not that active anymore.
SPEAKER_1: Actually, I'm not very active at the moment in the Internet.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_1: We are waiting for the Demo 3 to start again.
SPEAKER_2: So people should have a Steam wishlist, I guess.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, we reached 21,000 wishlists.
SPEAKER_1: Wow.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_1: Well, thanks a lot.
SPEAKER_2: Thanks for taking the time also.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Always.
SPEAKER_1: Nice to meet you.
SPEAKER_2: Nice to meet you too.