SPEAKER_1: Hey everybody, my name is Gregory Nassiu, and I created C64 OS, and you are listening to the Scene World Podcast.
SPEAKER_2: Hey, it's the Scene World Podcast.
SPEAKER_2: I am me, he's over there.
SPEAKER_1: Right.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, freshly back and sickened from Christmas.
SPEAKER_1: Exactly.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, and the first episode in the new year.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Good Lord, it's 2025.
SPEAKER_2: Wow.
SPEAKER_1: Finally.
SPEAKER_2: Well, it's not 2025 yet really for us, but when you're listening to us, it will be.
SPEAKER_2: So yeah, that year went off without a hitch, I bet.
SPEAKER_2: New year was great, had a fantastic time.
SPEAKER_2: Awesome.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Totally, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Nothing ominous coming at all in 2005.
SPEAKER_2: No bad things are going to happen at all.
SPEAKER_2: It's going to be great.
SPEAKER_1: Let's make the year great again.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: So in a minute, we have Fritz Philipp of Gui64.
SPEAKER_2: That is a new, we've talked to other people, we've talked about Geos and C64 OS, and these things that are giving you new functionality, even like the final cartridge had that Amiga-ish looking thing to it.
SPEAKER_2: But Fritz has been working on Gui64, which is essentially a web-based, not a web-based, what the fuck am I talking about?
SPEAKER_2: It's a graphical-based Gui64 dot, essentially.
SPEAKER_2: But unless you do a whole lot of stuff that, we'll talk about that in a little bit, you'll see.
SPEAKER_2: Before that, we're going to talk some news.
SPEAKER_1: Exactly.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, well.
SPEAKER_1: So first, some news of our own.
SPEAKER_1: Rakim Dar, our staff member, actually released his refuel of Procon Sword reforged.
SPEAKER_1: And well, thanks to Charles Cecil, who gave us the refuel code.
SPEAKER_1: You can see it on YouTube now, so enjoy.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: I'll link to that down there, where you can go and-
SPEAKER_1: Exactly.
SPEAKER_2: If you're watching this on YouTube, go watch that and then come back.
SPEAKER_1: Exactly.
SPEAKER_1: Also, like and subscribe, right?
SPEAKER_1: And hit the bell icon.
SPEAKER_1: So don't forget that.
SPEAKER_2: That's what we do.
SPEAKER_1: Awesome.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Other news.
SPEAKER_1: Same Revolution Software again.
SPEAKER_1: In their yearly Christmas video, they teased a proposed, um, smoking mirror.
SPEAKER_1: So the second one from, um, Broken Sword.
SPEAKER_1: And there will be a refreshed edition perhaps.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: That's what he was saying.
SPEAKER_2: It was, um, what was the name of it?
SPEAKER_1: It's called Broken Sword 2, the smoking mirror.
SPEAKER_2: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: And they announced, well, he hinted.
SPEAKER_2: He hinted, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: He had a strong.
SPEAKER_1: He had a drawing at the end of the video.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: He strongly hinted that there will be a reforged, which is funny because we talked to him not that long ago, and he was just like, well, you know, because I think you straight up asked him, are you going to do the other ones?
SPEAKER_2: And he was like, well, you know, I don't know about that.
SPEAKER_2: Well, but like a week after our podcast comes out, he's like, yeah, we're going to do it.
SPEAKER_1: But first, there will be the Parseval Stone, which is the new rendition of the series.
SPEAKER_1: So anyway, that comes before the reforged of the Smoker Mirror.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Now we just got to talk to Marius Gosh about doing a reforged 2.5.
SPEAKER_1: We actually did when I said they did the same thing with the Sekh McCracken fan project.
SPEAKER_1: And he was like, yeah, he considered it, but then he was happy he got out of the video game business.
SPEAKER_2: He wasn't down with it.
SPEAKER_2: But maybe, you know, now that all the rest of them are coming out like that, maybe it's a little bit pushing off the end.
SPEAKER_1: I mean, we will be talking to the main graphic designer soon, and he totally would be telling us.
SPEAKER_2: We're not supposed to say that.
SPEAKER_2: We can't, we're not supposed to do a pre-announced guess.
SPEAKER_1: But didn't we do that last time?
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, we do that all the time.
SPEAKER_2: I'm just, yeah.
SPEAKER_1: We started doing that as guests booked early, so we knew it would be happening.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, anyway, anyway, that's so much about that.
SPEAKER_1: Also, other news, GameStop in Germany closes all stores by the end of January.
SPEAKER_2: I saw that, yeah.
SPEAKER_1: So after Italy, who sold their stores to the competitor, now Germany is closing all stores.
SPEAKER_1: So the death outside of the US market began.
SPEAKER_1: But, yeah, at the beginning, it wasn't sure if that also means the death of the online store, but that will close as well.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_2: I'm really kind of amazed that a lot of stores are still around because of the way that people purchase now, because a lot of it is straight up online.
SPEAKER_2: That's where you get a lot of your stuff.
SPEAKER_2: That's just one of the main reasons that RadioShack went out of business.
SPEAKER_2: That was a cool, RadioShack was an awesome store back in the day, where I could go and be like, I need this, this part, a part number, whatever, and they'd be like, okay, here you go.
SPEAKER_2: Then you go home and you stick it in whatever you need to stick it into.
SPEAKER_2: They were electronics to the point where I could take a, what did I take?
SPEAKER_2: I took a 1541 there in the late 90s, and they fixed a 1541 disk drive that was already obsolete 10 years before I brought it in.
SPEAKER_2: It was a cool store for that, and then at some point, they became more consumer electronics focused.
SPEAKER_2: They were selling their RC cars and stuff like that, and then towards the end, they just became a phone store, but a lot of them, you could still go in and be like, yo, I need this part, and they'd be like, I'll go in the back and get it.
SPEAKER_2: But now they've all closed because I could just go online and be like, yo, I need this part, and have it sent to me.
SPEAKER_1: Same day delivery at Amazon.
SPEAKER_2: Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: And I don't have to leave the house.
SPEAKER_2: I don't have to interact with people.
SPEAKER_2: So I'm kind of surprised that any businesses are really still in.
SPEAKER_1: But here in Germany, same day delivery only works in some case, and only if you are living in a big city.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: If you are living in smaller cities, no same day delivery.
SPEAKER_2: I wonder if there's a thing.
SPEAKER_2: Okay, so you've got Uber and Lyft, they're ride sharing things where you have people come and pick you up.
SPEAKER_2: You've also got like DoorDash and Uber Eats and crap like that.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Well, we got Uber, but well, it's different.
SPEAKER_2: Well, I'm not saying that you have things.
SPEAKER_2: I'm just saying that there's Uber Eats and DoorDash where people-
SPEAKER_1: In America at least.
SPEAKER_2: Pick up your food at a restaurant and bring it back to you, like it's a ride sharing delivery service.
SPEAKER_2: I wonder if there's a thing where you can be like, yo, I need this part.
SPEAKER_2: Go pick that up from the auto parts store or wherever and bring it to me.
SPEAKER_2: That seems like it would be a no-brainer to have that, right?
SPEAKER_2: I don't know if there's anything like that.
SPEAKER_2: There must be, there must be, but it's not as big a thing as DoorDash or Uber Eats, where you just go and grab someone's food and deliver it.
SPEAKER_2: I don't know.
SPEAKER_2: That's cool.
SPEAKER_2: We'll write that down.
SPEAKER_2: Nobody listening, nobody heard that.
SPEAKER_2: You guys didn't hear that.
SPEAKER_2: That's our idea.
SPEAKER_2: We're going to start that business.
SPEAKER_1: Right.
SPEAKER_1: Anyway, other news.
SPEAKER_1: System 3 announced that the last Ninja Collection now allows playing games in full screen.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_2: It didn't before?
SPEAKER_1: It didn't before.
SPEAKER_1: But people requested it, and now it's happening.
SPEAKER_2: That's a good choice.
SPEAKER_1: And they posted a video of last Ninja 1 playing in full screen on the Switch.
SPEAKER_1: So we will link to that.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Nice.
SPEAKER_1: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: I got a piece of news.
SPEAKER_1: That's all the news I've got.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: I got one here.
SPEAKER_2: So we've talked about Core I64 before.
SPEAKER_2: They are currently the guys that are making CMD hard drive.
SPEAKER_2: I know FD drives.
SPEAKER_2: They're doing the hard drives.
SPEAKER_2: They're also doing those GoTek floppy drives, where it's like a CMD FD4000, but with a GoTek drive in it, which, okay.
SPEAKER_2: But they just announced, this says it's their final announcement for 2024, and it is that they have completed recreating and reverse engineering the 4 megahertz accelerator, the Turbomaster for the C64.
SPEAKER_2: So it's the Turbomaster V3.
SPEAKER_2: It supports either a Rockwell 6502, I guess at 4 megahertz, or the Western Digital 6502.
SPEAKER_2: I guess there's certain variations of the thing that you can get.
SPEAKER_2: It's an R65CO2P4 or a W65CO2 S6TPG-14.
SPEAKER_2: For any of you going to RadioShack to get parts, that's what you need to ask for.
SPEAKER_2: It also has a toggle switch on it, which lets you switch between GeoRAM and REU.
SPEAKER_2: He said that it's not entirely ready for prime time yet, and he needs to make a slight revision to the board and to the case.
SPEAKER_1: Nice.
SPEAKER_2: But it should be on the market in 2025, so.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, that's pretty awesome.
SPEAKER_2: I mean, I've been saying for years that I wish somebody would reverse engineer the super CPU, because.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, but 4 MHz, really?
SPEAKER_1: I mean, honestly, I mean.
SPEAKER_2: I mean, this ain't a super CPU.
SPEAKER_2: This is not a super CPU, but to be perfectly clear, there was a thing back in the day called TurboMaster, give you a 4 MHz.
SPEAKER_1: But actually, I never heard of that.
SPEAKER_1: Really?
SPEAKER_1: I only knew about two accelerator cards and that was the Flash 8, which was done in Germany by a German company.
SPEAKER_2: Yes, what was the other?
SPEAKER_1: And it's a super CPU.
SPEAKER_1: That's the only two I knew of.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: I'm going to look up.
SPEAKER_2: I'm going to do a little bit of searching here.
SPEAKER_2: It's the Transformers character.
SPEAKER_1: If I'm not mistaken, it was the Flash 8, right?
SPEAKER_2: All right.
SPEAKER_2: I'm looking right now at the 64-week Wiki.
SPEAKER_2: Turbomaster CPU.
SPEAKER_2: It was an early CPU accelerator for the Commodore 64.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: I'm remembering correct.
SPEAKER_1: It's called Flash 8.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Schneider Systems made it.
SPEAKER_2: Some of it came with JiffyDos.
SPEAKER_2: When was it released?
SPEAKER_2: If it had JiffyDos.
SPEAKER_2: That's interesting.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, there's a whole PDF about it.
SPEAKER_2: Look at that.
SPEAKER_2: I found the owner's manual.
SPEAKER_2: Turbmaster CPU by Schneider Systems.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_1: Schneider, I guess?
SPEAKER_2: No, Schneider.
SPEAKER_1: Schneider.
SPEAKER_2: S-C-H-N-E-D-L-E-R.
SPEAKER_1: Schneider.
SPEAKER_2: S-C-H-N-E-D-L-E-R.
SPEAKER_1: Well, I just looked it up.
SPEAKER_1: The Flash 8 was done by Rossmöller.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Now, this isn't that.
SPEAKER_2: This was a different thing.
SPEAKER_2: I'm just curious when it came out.
SPEAKER_2: That's my.
SPEAKER_1: That's just for reference.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: It's been referred to as the shittier cousin of the super CPU.
SPEAKER_2: What did you send me?
SPEAKER_2: Flash 8.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_2: The Flash 8.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: I've known about the Flash 8 for a long time.
SPEAKER_2: That was a thing.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: It gave you an 8 MHz.
SPEAKER_2: So this is twice as fast as the TurboMaster.
SPEAKER_2: How fast was a Super CPU?
SPEAKER_2: I know the Super CPU used the 651602, the 16-bit version.
SPEAKER_2: So it's 65816 rather is the one I used.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, it was up to 20 MHz.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: Pause one moment.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: We'll cut that part out with me blowing my nose in mute.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, so it's much slower than the Super CPU, but I'd be interested to know.
SPEAKER_2: So you've got a Super CPU?
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Do you have the Flash 8?
SPEAKER_2: No.
SPEAKER_3: No.
SPEAKER_1: I joined the Scene in 98 and it was released in 94, discontinued 96, so too late for me.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, really?
SPEAKER_1: I just sent you a link to the article in the season 4 Wiki.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: I always wanted a Super CPU, but it was one of those things where I just couldn't, I couldn't figure out the cost to benefit.
SPEAKER_1: Well, I use it mostly nowadays for running test drive because it's running super, super amazing with that.
SPEAKER_1: And it's still my favorite test drive.
SPEAKER_1: And it runs perfect with it because for whatever reason, Accolade included a framework limiter in the game in A27.
SPEAKER_1: That was very forward thinking.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, they probably tied it to like the screen refresh or something, which isn't going to change no matter what.
SPEAKER_2: But I'm curious to know what kind of a boost you would get with the Turbomaster because-
SPEAKER_1: Wait, you mean they just limited it to 50 frames per second?
SPEAKER_2: I would think, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: I think it would max out at that because you can't go faster than 50 frames a second because that's how fast the screen is redrawn.
SPEAKER_1: In Europe, anyway, in America, it's 60 in the U.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: But wouldn't that make still the game unplayable?
SPEAKER_1: I don't know.
SPEAKER_2: No, I'm saying that that would be the top cap on frame rate.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: But you physically can't make it any faster than 50 frames per second.
SPEAKER_1: But for example, if you have Stunt Car Racer or Messonary, which is also 3D games.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_1: They are unplayable.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_2: And they're clocked, again, because those things are clocked to the processor speed of the computer.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_2: So, but if you clock it to like the interrupt, which is, you know, that's tied to the raster, which is with the screen redraw.
SPEAKER_2: So if you time it to that, then it's not going to matter how fast the processor is.
SPEAKER_2: It'll just be able to, the processor might be able to do more per redraw, because it won't, because normally when you do that, when you interrupt it, you can do some stuff.
SPEAKER_2: But it, like, you ever see those music, this is for the audience here, you ever see those music playing apps?
SPEAKER_2: Apps, good Lord.
SPEAKER_2: Music things on the C64 where like the, there's just kind of like a little bar going up and down on the top of the screen.
SPEAKER_2: That's a basic screen cut.
SPEAKER_2: So what you're doing is you're waiting for the raster to get to that line.
SPEAKER_2: Then you change the background color.
SPEAKER_2: And then you tell it basically to play the music.
SPEAKER_2: And when you're done playing the music for this loop around, because every time it does it once a cycle.
SPEAKER_2: When you're done doing it for that cycle, put the color back to the original.
SPEAKER_2: And because depending on how complex the music is, it uses a little bit more processor time, it gets a little bit more oomph, it'll kind of jiggle up and down because that's the amount of that screen redraw that it takes to do that one thing.
SPEAKER_2: Okay?
SPEAKER_2: So with that, like you might, with a faster processor, you might just see a single one-pixel line because it can do more in that one, within that, use that raster time more efficiently.
SPEAKER_2: But it's not going to play it more than once a cycle because that's just you're waiting for that raster to come back and hit that number, that line on the screen, and then you wait and it comes back and do it again.
SPEAKER_2: So it's always going to be the same speed, regardless of what the processor is doing, if that makes any sense.
SPEAKER_1: On the other hand, it's also amazing that the fast loader is compatible with it, because that is where most multi-load games break, with the super CPU, except, yeah.
SPEAKER_1: So with a few exceptions, and this game is one of those few exceptions, simply works.
SPEAKER_2: So I'm curious what a 4 MHz upgrade would do, because again, I always wanted an Amiga that was like my dream machine back in the day.
SPEAKER_2: I couldn't find one because I live in the United States and they're impossible.
SPEAKER_2: But my upgrade ended up being-
SPEAKER_1: But you know that's bullshit, of course.
SPEAKER_1: You could get one.
SPEAKER_2: When I was a kid in Northern New Jersey, finding an Amiga was very, very difficult.
SPEAKER_2: They were never in stores.
SPEAKER_2: I didn't know anyone with one.
SPEAKER_2: We didn't have the Internet where I can just go online and get one.
SPEAKER_1: But elsewhere in America, you probably could.
SPEAKER_2: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: If an adult, because I was a kid, if an adult had the means and the drive, they could have found it.
SPEAKER_2: But me as like a 14-year-old kid, did not have that ability to go traveling to find an Amiga 500 or 1200.
SPEAKER_2: But either way, I wanted one of them.
SPEAKER_2: But my upgrade ended up being from a 64 to a 128.
SPEAKER_2: I know.
SPEAKER_2: That 2 MHz, that 1 MHz increase, that little bump was actually quite a big difference.
SPEAKER_2: It was running twice as fast.
SPEAKER_2: Geos was usable.
SPEAKER_2: Even in 80 columns, you would think that an 80-column screen would be, that's twice the screen real estate to have to deal with.
SPEAKER_2: The VDC works a little bit different than the VIC.
SPEAKER_2: But nevertheless, it made things, it was a noticeable increase in speed over the 64.
SPEAKER_2: So now doubling that, it might not be that much today, but certain things like that.
SPEAKER_2: Remember when that guy made a one-to-one conversion of Super Mario Brothers for the 64?
SPEAKER_2: That game, it runs fine on my 64, but there's a couple of spots where it'll just get choked up.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Apparently, you can use the 128, and it'll turn off the borders and use that for a little extra speed.
SPEAKER_2: I haven't tried it yet.
SPEAKER_2: I would like to.
SPEAKER_2: But with a four megahertz upgrade, yeah, nothing would run, wouldn't choke at all.
SPEAKER_2: I don't know if anything else.
SPEAKER_2: I guess test drive would use it.
SPEAKER_2: I'd be interested to see how fast test drive would be with it.
SPEAKER_2: But it might be worth it to some people.
SPEAKER_2: I'd like to try Geo's with it just because, again, I'm used to running it at two megahertz, but I'd love to see what four looks like.
SPEAKER_1: All right.
SPEAKER_1: Point taken.
SPEAKER_2: So, yeah, maybe it's something interesting.
SPEAKER_2: I mean, it is something interesting.
SPEAKER_2: How much, how well it'll do is, because there's other ones, the turbo chameleon is a bit of an accelerator.
SPEAKER_2: That's not an accelerator in the same way that a super CPU is, but it does that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_2: So yeah, it could be interesting to think about.
SPEAKER_2: I'd like to see one.
SPEAKER_2: We should have that guy on.
SPEAKER_1: All right.
SPEAKER_1: So now let's go to Fritz Philipp.
SPEAKER_2: Yes, indeed.
SPEAKER_2: Over to Gui64.
SPEAKER_1: Exactly.
SPEAKER_2: That's a graphical user interface C64, not just a C64 that's been sitting out in the rain and mud and stuff.
SPEAKER_2: It's not a Gui64.
SPEAKER_2: That would be gross.
SPEAKER_3: All righty.
SPEAKER_2: We're talking to Fritz Philipp, the designer of Gui64.
SPEAKER_2: Welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_1: Welcome.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: So now we would ask you, like we ask our guests usually, how did you start?
SPEAKER_2: What he was just saying, which is, when he was 16, he was forgetting about the 64.
SPEAKER_1: Exactly.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: Right.
SPEAKER_4: So I can pick that up.
SPEAKER_4: So you started with 16 in the scene.
SPEAKER_4: So with about 16 or maybe let's say with 15, 14, actually I think it was 15, I started to forget about the Commodore 64 because the guitars and girls were much more interesting, stuff like that.
SPEAKER_3: So my 64th time was pretty short, actually, I would say.
SPEAKER_4: So like I started with as a 12-year-old, or 11, no, I think rather 12-year-old, yeah.
SPEAKER_4: And stopped as a 14 or 15-year-old because of other stuff, not because of the Amiga, as some other people.
SPEAKER_4: No, yeah, it was about girls and stuff.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, but then when I, yeah, so in the 40s, in my 40s, so I'm now 48 and was I think 2018 or so, why I got really interested again.
SPEAKER_4: So then there was this D64 by Retro Games, right?
SPEAKER_4: I think that came out in 2018.
SPEAKER_4: And what was it, 17?
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, the little guy back there, hiding there in the taxi.
SPEAKER_3: No, not the Mini, not the Mini.
SPEAKER_4: I didn't like the Mini, so that was not at all interesting for me.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, the Mini released in 2017, if I'm not mistaken.
SPEAKER_2: The full-size one came out shortly after.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, 2018 should be correct.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, I think it was in kind of in the Christmas time and yeah, then I got somehow thrilled again.
SPEAKER_4: And so before as a kid, I was only playing games and not so many actually or so.
SPEAKER_4: But then at some point, I had a look into the-
SPEAKER_1: Just one thing, you seem to be hitting the microphone with something, like, I don't know, with a pen or something.
SPEAKER_1: Perhaps you shouldn't do that.
SPEAKER_1: Otherwise, we have clicking noises in the recording.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: No, it's actually this viral here.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_4: But this is actually far away from the mic, like that.
SPEAKER_1: But still we can hear it when it's hitting, the table.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, sorry.
SPEAKER_4: I will.
SPEAKER_3: No problem.
SPEAKER_4: Right.
SPEAKER_4: So where was I?
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Right.
SPEAKER_4: So when I was young, so 12 until 14, 15, so I mainly played games.
SPEAKER_4: And but then at some point I had a look into this.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know.
SPEAKER_4: So it wasn't also the programmer's reference guide that came with the Commodore 64 or did you have to buy it?
SPEAKER_2: You have to get that separate.
SPEAKER_2: The 64, depending on which 64 you got.
SPEAKER_2: Like I had the 64C.
SPEAKER_2: Well, I still have the 64C.
SPEAKER_1: In Germany, I can tell you, in Germany, it never came with a reference guide.
SPEAKER_2: Well, it didn't come with a reference guide, but it came with a pretty thick manual with how to do stuff.
SPEAKER_2: It wasn't as in-depth as the reference guide, but it was, I think, more than you got with the original bread bed.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, user's guide.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, user's guide.
SPEAKER_4: So very, yeah, with some introduction into basic.
SPEAKER_1: Exactly.
SPEAKER_4: And the main functions and so.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: And stuff for the balloons.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Yes.
SPEAKER_1: Exactly.
SPEAKER_1: Yes, but just to correct AJ here, in Germany, the manual of the C64 Pratt pin and the one for the C64C had the same manual.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: Maybe it did.
SPEAKER_2: I didn't have a bread bin with the manual, so I don't know what it came with.
SPEAKER_2: I know what the 64C, it was a real glossy, nice-looking spiral-bound book.
SPEAKER_2: I got it somewhere.
SPEAKER_3: Like that?
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Well, that's the Programmers' Reference Guide.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: So there was this book, and I had a look in there, and yeah.
SPEAKER_4: And then I was kind of thrilled by this very simple program.
SPEAKER_4: As everybody knows, 10 prints, 20 go-to.
SPEAKER_4: Because that's actually, so that's some of the essence of programming, right?
SPEAKER_4: So this, like, I don't know, mechanical stuff, you want, the mechanics inside.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, then I wanted to do graphics and all this stuff, and also, yeah, just copied the stuff with the balloons, and also some music.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, so sometime I was really into this very simple programming.
SPEAKER_4: But yeah, then I forgot about it.
SPEAKER_4: In 2018, that was the C64 Maxi that came out.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, I needed to have it.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, then I bought it and started with some basic again.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, that was pretty nice to get back into that, because I forgot everything.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, that's just now six years ago.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, and then I pretty quickly saw that that basic is very slow.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, that to do, you cannot even do a reasonable problem with this, in my opinion, or at least I couldn't.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, so I needed to learn assembly.
SPEAKER_4: And then I started to look into one of these books of Jim Butterfield.
SPEAKER_4: Very, very, so he, the explanations are superb in this book, at least as far as I read.
SPEAKER_4: And I understood what it was about.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, and then at some point, I wanted to let this bright run from left to the right.
SPEAKER_4: And I put it into this machine language monitor as far as I thought it would be correct.
SPEAKER_4: And then, okay, go.
SPEAKER_4: And I saw nothing, nothing happened, what's that?
SPEAKER_4: And just, I think it took some time, maybe 20, 30 minutes, until I really realized, oh, it was all correct, but it's that fast.
SPEAKER_4: You just don't see the sprite.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, because at the second time, the screen is refreshed, it's already out of the screen.
SPEAKER_4: That was kind of mind-blowing.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, and then I, I don't know, then I started to write some stuff whenever I was happy to do it.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, maybe you have some other questions.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting.
SPEAKER_1: For example, I just reminded myself, you said basic is too slow to make anything out of it.
SPEAKER_1: But there were some exceptions where actually games were written in it.
SPEAKER_1: I just remember the game Mafia that was done in basic, but they used Plits Basic Compiler to make it in a reasonable speed.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, they still cheated.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, you could say that.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: But now, of course, I wonder, returning back and then out of a sudden, making a graphical user interface, that's quite of a bold move afterwards, right?
SPEAKER_2: Is that the first thing that you started programming, or was there other stuff that led up to it?
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, it was not out of a sudden.
SPEAKER_3: So I think it was, who was it?
SPEAKER_4: There was one guy, so in the forums, in the 64 forum, his name is Whispall, but I cannot recall his real name, Roman something.
SPEAKER_4: And he made a game, so a solitaire game.
SPEAKER_4: And actually at the same time, I was making a free cell game.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know why I had this idea.
SPEAKER_4: That was actually in 2019 or 20.
SPEAKER_4: So, and, but I had my free cell game with joystick control, and he had a mouse driver.
SPEAKER_4: He used the mouse driver in the background, and that was, I found this super exciting to have a mouse on the Commodore 64.
SPEAKER_4: What the fuck?
SPEAKER_4: How does this work?
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, so then, well, he, I think he informed me how he did it, and that it's actually machine language in the background.
SPEAKER_4: But, so we both wrote up our games in BASIC, and yeah, then, I also introduced this mouse support into my freestyle game and improved it more and more.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, then it was kind of finished, and then I thought, okay, so then I can also write solitaire.
SPEAKER_4: It should be an easy step.
SPEAKER_4: But yeah, okay, so then actually I wrote it in assembly, because I, yeah, and actually in that course, I also learned quite some stuff.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, how assembly works again.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, so then I had a FreeSight game and a Solitaire game, so these card games.
SPEAKER_4: And these were part of the early Windows versions, right?
SPEAKER_4: So Windows, I think even the 3.1, which I never got, yeah, or which I never really experienced.
SPEAKER_4: I actually started with Windows 95.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, interesting.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: Back in the day, yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Ah, you missed all the fun with no uninstaller for programs and...
SPEAKER_1: You totally missed a whole lot of pain.
SPEAKER_4: I didn't have a PC, so I only got one in 96, and then 95 was already there.
SPEAKER_4: So, but yeah, those games were still in there.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, therefore, I thought, okay, then what's missing?
SPEAKER_4: So, Minesweeper is missing, right?
SPEAKER_4: So I wrote also this Minesweeper game, also in Basic first, and then later on also in Assembly, which is then much snappier and nicer.
SPEAKER_4: And then I had these three games, and yeah, then all are controlled by mouse.
SPEAKER_1: Good old 1351.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_4: Actually, I bought some, but they are terrible to use.
SPEAKER_4: So I don't know why, but I really had to, I don't know, lift it up.
SPEAKER_4: So it didn't work, and then I had to lift it up again, use it, and at some point it didn't work again, and that was really terrible.
SPEAKER_4: So right now I'm just using such a mouse.
SPEAKER_1: Ah, with an adapter or something, I guess.
SPEAKER_4: So I have this mouser, which is a great thing, I think.
SPEAKER_4: But apparently it's not produced anymore at the moment.
SPEAKER_4: So I don't know what people do now, but...
SPEAKER_1: Well, I can tell you from my experience, since Lemmings is one of those games I like, and Lemmings is the only game on the Commodore 64 only working with an original 1351 mouse.
SPEAKER_1: So I always have one on my desk when I want to play Lemmings.
SPEAKER_3: Really?
SPEAKER_3: It works with those?
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: And only with an original 1351, which I don't understand to this day, because all the other mice are claiming to be 100% compatible, but this game doesn't work with any of those.
SPEAKER_4: Oh, really?
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: Didn't we figure out why that was once?
SPEAKER_2: Didn't we talk to somebody that was like, oh, this is the reason?
SPEAKER_1: No, I never got a definite answer.
SPEAKER_1: Always clues.
SPEAKER_1: You know?
SPEAKER_1: Clues.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, at least.
SPEAKER_4: So, my 1351 is a mess, so.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Mine lives on top of my disk drive.
SPEAKER_2: It hasn't been used in a long time.
SPEAKER_2: I love the mouse.
SPEAKER_2: It's one of my favorite.
SPEAKER_2: I've got a, I don't know where I put it.
SPEAKER_2: I was using it for a bit.
SPEAKER_1: I don't like it at all.
SPEAKER_2: I'm talking about the USB version that came with the, that they made with the Amiga 500, like the C64.
SPEAKER_2: I love that one, the USB.
SPEAKER_1: It's still the same horrible tank mouse design, which I hate.
SPEAKER_2: I don't mind the design.
SPEAKER_2: I just miss the scroll wheel.
SPEAKER_1: It's uneconomic.
SPEAKER_1: That's my, anyway.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, you wanted to say something?
SPEAKER_4: No, actually, I also have this one.
SPEAKER_4: The mouse is called, and it's smaller, but actually, it doesn't work well with its mousetor.
SPEAKER_2: Really?
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, so it hangs in between, and maybe it's my configuration of the mousetor.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know.
SPEAKER_2: I had a bit of a problem like that with the, I used the Micro MIS, the Individual Computers Adapter with a PS2 mouse, and it works, but every so often, the arrow will be moving and just stop and then continue on.
SPEAKER_2: There's always a pause every so often, which I'm not sure why that is, but it drove me nuts.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, that's annoying.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, this I've never, I've never tried on USB mice.
SPEAKER_4: But yeah, so if the mousetor is not produced anymore, people have to buy this, at least currently, yeah, right?
SPEAKER_4: There's also a new mouse, which is really the original size.
SPEAKER_4: This B mouse, it's called the Tank mouse, I think.
SPEAKER_3: Right.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: That has a scroll wheel.
SPEAKER_2: It's got like a little sensor in between the buttons.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: In fact, I've ordered it twice.
SPEAKER_3: Oh, boy.
SPEAKER_2: But I didn't get it.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, boy.
SPEAKER_1: What?
SPEAKER_1: You didn't get it?
SPEAKER_4: No.
SPEAKER_3: No.
SPEAKER_3: Wow.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know what happened.
SPEAKER_4: So both times, I didn't get any little piece of paper that they used to put into the post box.
SPEAKER_4: To, yeah, in order to tell you, okay, go to the post office and get your stuff.
SPEAKER_4: But yeah, in both cases, they didn't do it.
SPEAKER_2: Did they take your money?
SPEAKER_4: In fact, yeah.
SPEAKER_3: Oh.
SPEAKER_4: I've contacted them, and they told me, so either you, yeah, I don't know, you contact the German post, I don't know what it's called, German mail, and convince them that there was a mistake, and then send us the e-mails and stuff, and convince us, and then we send it to you again.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_4: Otherwise, okay, so they would send it to me again, but I would have to pay another, I don't know, 10, I don't know.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, because for re-shipment, yeah, that's the problem, yeah.
SPEAKER_4: I think it comes from the UK, so...
SPEAKER_4: No, it comes from the Netherlands, actually.
SPEAKER_4: But yeah, okay, it's all fine.
SPEAKER_4: I think I will do it, and then it's okay.
SPEAKER_1: How did it involve from using the tank mouse to make Solitaire and other games to a graphical user interface?
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: So, then I had all these three Windows games, and well, I thought, okay, let's put at least two of them into one, I don't know, one program, which I then called Fritz Card Games Collection or something like that.
SPEAKER_4: And then, I had these two games in it, and yeah, okay, that was not, I mean, it didn't have a nice screen, but you can argue on that.
SPEAKER_4: But, so later on, I had this idea to make Windows 95, 98 mock up with a start button down there, and then there's the start menu, and you can then choose between those three games and shut down.
SPEAKER_4: Which I then did, and I copied the start button exactly as it was in Windows.
SPEAKER_4: And in fact, so I was, I announced this on Facebook, that it's published now.
SPEAKER_4: And then there was actually the guy who made the start button from Microsoft back then.
SPEAKER_3: And he said, well, it looks exactly the same.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, OK.
SPEAKER_1: Ah, that's how I found out about you by that Facebook post.
SPEAKER_4: Ah, OK.
SPEAKER_4: But yeah, OK.
SPEAKER_4: But you're also on the Forum 64, right?
SPEAKER_1: I'm not really active there.
SPEAKER_1: In fact, I'm getting once in a while an e-mail like, please log on or else we will delete your account.
SPEAKER_1: So I'm very inactive over there.
SPEAKER_4: Oh, that's interesting.
SPEAKER_4: I thought actually, so that's the main spot where people from the scene meet on this forum.
SPEAKER_4: But it doesn't seem...
SPEAKER_1: I'm not a big fan of Forum 64.
SPEAKER_1: It had some scandals in the past and stuff.
SPEAKER_1: And some rough people, conversations and stuff.
SPEAKER_1: Not my place to be, honestly.
SPEAKER_1: But I DMed you on Lemon64, however.
SPEAKER_4: Okay, but that's not that frequently visited by people, as far as I saw.
SPEAKER_4: So it's not so very active, as the German Forum, at least.
SPEAKER_1: Perhaps, perhaps.
SPEAKER_4: But I think that what, yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know about these scandals, because I've, yeah, I don't know, started there.
SPEAKER_1: You missed all those juicy bits.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, Lordy.
SPEAKER_4: The what?
SPEAKER_1: You missed the juicy bits.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, maybe for good.
SPEAKER_1: So perhaps, perhaps for the better, yes.
SPEAKER_4: I did that forum in 2019 or so.
SPEAKER_4: So I guess I missed a whole lot of stuff.
SPEAKER_4: But yeah, so I thought that's, that's the main point where people gather.
SPEAKER_4: But yeah, so, okay, so.
SPEAKER_1: Well, perhaps for the Germans, but obviously since I'm more steered towards international communities, I'm not really much following what's going on, on in Germany, especially, to be honest, you know?
SPEAKER_1: I mean, I'm speaking English almost daily with AJ and other people of my staff, and most of them don't speak German, so it's not really like.
SPEAKER_4: So you guys meet almost daily or what?
SPEAKER_1: Not with AJ, exclusively, but obviously we exchanging emails and stuff.
SPEAKER_1: So we are constantly in touch, you know?
SPEAKER_4: That's very nice.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, it's a good team, I would say.
SPEAKER_4: But, I mean, I guess you guys also work, usually.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, it's a free time hobby, obviously, yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: And it consumes a lot of time, I guess.
SPEAKER_1: That's true.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: At least also for me.
SPEAKER_4: Oh, nice, nice Commodore demo in the background.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: That's the one, right?
SPEAKER_4: So the Commodore demo.
SPEAKER_2: Let's see.
SPEAKER_2: I think so, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: That's the Christmas show thing.
SPEAKER_2: I just threw that on because it's that time of year.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: And I'm here with my Sonic Sega T-shirt, so perhaps not fitting the topics so well.
SPEAKER_3: No.
SPEAKER_1: But it's interesting to hear that because of your games, you decided to make a graphical user interface.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_4: Because I don't know what that got to my mind.
SPEAKER_4: So there was already this start button and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_4: So I don't know.
SPEAKER_4: And then I thought, okay, are there actually graphical user interfaces for the...
SPEAKER_4: Oh, and then I saw these Tios.
SPEAKER_4: I think that also was, yeah, I don't know, is a point in this decision process.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, which was super great.
SPEAKER_4: Maybe you know it.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_1: C64, you asked about what you mean?
SPEAKER_2: Geos.
SPEAKER_1: Geos?
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, yeah, no, that's a great thing.
SPEAKER_2: The biggest issue I have with it, I used to use it a lot back in the day when I was younger, and used the 64 as my main machine.
SPEAKER_4: No, wait, wait, wait.
SPEAKER_4: Sorry to interrupt you, but I don't mean Geos.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, you don't mean Geos, okay.
SPEAKER_4: But Tios with T like Theodore.
SPEAKER_1: No, no, I don't know that one.
SPEAKER_1: I don't know that.
SPEAKER_1: No.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: That is super impressive.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, TOS like the Atari one.
SPEAKER_2: Like the, is that, am I talking about the right thing?
SPEAKER_4: No, I don't think so.
SPEAKER_4: No, no.
SPEAKER_4: It was made by some guy.
SPEAKER_4: Actually, I don't know his name.
SPEAKER_4: I think he, he appeared, he appears only on YouTube and shows, showed off his videos like eight of them or so.
SPEAKER_4: But he shows off the development of this operating system.
SPEAKER_4: It's really a multitasking operating system for the Commodore 64.
SPEAKER_4: So a real multitasking.
SPEAKER_4: So there's even Task Manager and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_4: It's super impressive.
SPEAKER_1: TOS.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_1: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, I'm looking for that.
SPEAKER_4: He also, under one of my videos, that guy wrote a really nice message, and in that he says that he got to some point in the process, where it was just too much and too tedious, because at some point, it's just only work that you have to do, and he had to rewrite stuff, or he would have to, would have had to rewrite stuff in order to make it work.
SPEAKER_4: So at least I'm also such a guy, so if I have an idea, I just write code.
SPEAKER_4: So usually, it does not work then.
SPEAKER_1: I see.
SPEAKER_4: And then I have to rethink, oh, maybe, why doesn't it work?
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, then you have to find solutions.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, so I usually don't have a big plan of what I want to write, I just write stuff.
SPEAKER_4: And then it's either good or it doesn't work, and usually it doesn't.
SPEAKER_1: I mean, it's a bold move to make a few games and then going into 1351 coding and then make a graphical user interface.
SPEAKER_1: That's like a very, very steep increase of difficulty at some point, no?
SPEAKER_4: It's different.
SPEAKER_1: Different, okay.
SPEAKER_4: I'd say, and by the way, so the 1351 was not a big point because the mouse driver was already there.
SPEAKER_4: I used it already for my basic games.
SPEAKER_4: I just copied this and then it was there.
SPEAKER_4: Okay, I had to work on it still a little bit, and also to make it somehow compatible to the joystick driver program.
SPEAKER_4: And because, well, you can, so for these games that I wrote before, you have to, when you start them, you have to choose between joystick and mouse, whether which one you want to use.
SPEAKER_4: And with this graphic user interface stuff, you don't have to.
SPEAKER_4: So you can just plug in joystick and mouse and use both if you want to.
SPEAKER_1: Probably mouse in port one and the joystick in port two, I guess.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Have you found it, by the way, the Tios?
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, it's interesting.
SPEAKER_1: It says it's text-based.
SPEAKER_4: Exactly.
SPEAKER_4: And that's also what this Gui64 is.
SPEAKER_4: It's also text-based.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, not so as Geos, Geos this time.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, of course, I knew there was Geos, because I also used it back in the day.
SPEAKER_4: I used it for writing, I don't know, letters or some small tables, whatever, what money I want to spend, and so on, on the guitar and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_2: The biggest thing with Geos is that it takes, if you're running it on a, originally, I used it on a C64, and it was, you're trying to write on that.
SPEAKER_2: You're in GeoWrite, you're typing, it's like you type, type, type, type, and you wait for the letters to pop on screen.
SPEAKER_2: On a 128 in 80-column mode, and an REU, and a 1571, and a 1581, and now it's a usable piece of software.
SPEAKER_2: But on a C64 with a 1541, no.
SPEAKER_1: That's why I got a Super CPU.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Well, I wouldn't say it's unusable.
SPEAKER_2: It takes a long time to use.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: I mean, we spoke about that with Grigorio Netru when we spoke about C64.
SPEAKER_1: The positive thing about GeoWrite was it had Weezy Rick so you could actually see what the end result would be before you print it.
SPEAKER_1: That was actually a big feat.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: I didn't understand it fully back in the day, but I really enjoyed this.
SPEAKER_4: And well, I can really remember.
SPEAKER_4: So back in the office where my father worked and stuff, and all the other workers there, they had DOS machines.
SPEAKER_4: They didn't have that fancy stuff.
SPEAKER_4: So I thought, yeah, my computer or my C64 is better in that way at least.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: But I think, well, okay, so you say it's unusable and it's, well, it's annoying to use.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: I wouldn't say it's unusable.
SPEAKER_2: It's to do things like, so I tried to write a long piece of fiction or a long paper for school or something.
SPEAKER_2: And that does not work well when you're dealing with multiple pages and lots of lines and whatnot.
SPEAKER_2: Because the further you get into it, the slower it goes because it has to re-render everything for it.
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: You have a lot of disk access, right?
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: And that's slow.
SPEAKER_4: And that's, I think, also because the bitmap takes that much memory already.
SPEAKER_4: But okay, so without bitmap, you wouldn't have this busy big stuff.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: It was inevitable, I think.
SPEAKER_4: Well, at least, yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_4: What I want to say is, yeah, maybe it's not super true, but I mean, so back in the day, we were used to slow computers.
SPEAKER_1: That's true.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: I'm using this back then.
SPEAKER_2: It was slow, but it was like, okay, this is what it is.
SPEAKER_2: Now, I try to do it and it's like wrong.
SPEAKER_2: No, I can't even think about it.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: That's what I mean.
SPEAKER_4: But okay.
SPEAKER_4: I mean, slow and we had to wait a long time for 1541 to finish.
SPEAKER_2: But we're talking about Gui64.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: We are getting off the rail quite often here.
SPEAKER_2: C64 historian over there.
SPEAKER_1: That's quite interesting to hear other people's opinion.
SPEAKER_4: Sure.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: I mean, is there much more to tell about 64 Gui?
SPEAKER_2: I think there's plenty.
SPEAKER_2: I mean, we barely scratched the surface.
SPEAKER_2: We've just started talking about the impetus to making it, which was starting with the games and the mouse control, which was that a custom mouse driver that you had?
SPEAKER_2: Or how did that work?
SPEAKER_2: Because we use Mr.
SPEAKER_2: Mouse from Loadstar.
SPEAKER_1: Exactly.
SPEAKER_2: So did you develop your own?
SPEAKER_2: You said somebody else had written the framework for it, and you adapted that.
SPEAKER_2: How did that go?
SPEAKER_4: I think I first had Roman Werner as his name.
SPEAKER_1: Right.
SPEAKER_1: So anyway, you said Roman Werner did the mouse driver, right?
SPEAKER_4: You said he had the mouse driver for his Solitaire game, and I think I just copied that one, but it didn't work quite well for me, at least as far as I remember.
SPEAKER_4: So then I searched the Internet, and somehow I found another driver, which I then used and modified a little bit.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Then I used this one.
SPEAKER_4: But I think all these mouse drivers are pretty similar, in a way, because, well, okay, so they, okay, I have this code, but I never really looked into it.
SPEAKER_4: I mean, I did, of course, for modifying it, but I never really understood what it was doing.
SPEAKER_4: So it's really working with these parts values in the SID, which is somehow connected to the ports.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know how that works, actually.
SPEAKER_4: No idea.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, yeah, the SID is calculating the X and Y coordinates and delivering it to the CR, which is actually the command, the control input.
SPEAKER_1: And now what stands the A4?
SPEAKER_1: I don't know.
SPEAKER_1: I totally forgot.
SPEAKER_1: But anyway, the SID is actually the one being responsible for analog joystick, which almost no games uses, the 3051 and-
SPEAKER_2: It stands for Complex Interface Adapter.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, thank you.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_1: Thank you.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: So, I don't know where I got it from.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, but that was still back in these games, in these card games.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, well, and I think this was, it was this spring, some, I think, where I actually started to write this, GUI.
SPEAKER_4: And so in the beginning, I actually didn't really know if it's worth it, and if I can accomplish this at all.
SPEAKER_4: Of course, I had this dream.
SPEAKER_4: In the end, I wanted to have it on the cartridge, put it in there.
SPEAKER_4: I mean, like you had on the actual replay, I think it's called.
SPEAKER_4: There you also have a graphic user interface.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, you mean the final cartridge.
SPEAKER_4: The final cartridge, sorry.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: So actually, when I started this project, I didn't know that there was this final cartridge thing, which is actually what I wanted.
SPEAKER_4: It's a graphical user interface, which comes with a cartridge.
SPEAKER_4: You plug it in, you turn on the Commodore 64, and it's there.
SPEAKER_4: But yeah, so in the course of writing my program, so I came across this and had a look at it and thought like, okay, it is a GUI, but it doesn't match with today's standards somehow.
SPEAKER_4: So it's like GeoS, very, and at the point where GeoS was released, there was no standard in for graphical interfaces, right?
SPEAKER_1: GeoS became the standard.
SPEAKER_1: Kind of.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, well, okay.
SPEAKER_4: So after many years now, we have somehow a standard how buttons should work and menus should work and all this stuff.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, and also I wanted to, yeah, I wanted to make it look a little bit more modern.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: So that was my goal and I tried a lot of stuff.
SPEAKER_4: And also, I had a look at this TOS, where there are only a few videos on YouTube, how he made it.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, so I looked a little bit up from there.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, and so one after the other, yeah, it came together.
SPEAKER_4: Then in the beginning, I had problems with the interrupt, with the rest interrupt and stuff.
SPEAKER_4: That was fixed.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, then I had a first version where Windows could at least overlap and stuff like that, and could be moved around.
SPEAKER_4: I can remember in the beginning I had, so this, right, for moving Windows around, I used sprites for the corners of the Windows.
SPEAKER_4: So here's sprite, there's sprite, there's sprite, there's sprite.
SPEAKER_4: And the sprites you can easily move.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Then click again and the window will appear at the new position.
SPEAKER_4: That worked well, but okay.
SPEAKER_4: Then I, yeah, checked out how it actually would work if I just moved the window as we would do on our systems today.
SPEAKER_4: And well, it also worked quite fine.
SPEAKER_4: So why use all these sprites?
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, fuck them and put them into the trash.
SPEAKER_4: So yeah, so there were all these stages.
SPEAKER_4: And it was, it's always fun, I think, when you have an idea and you make it, make it somehow come true.
SPEAKER_4: So you have to go through some valleys because it doesn't work.
SPEAKER_4: You have problems, you have to solve problems.
SPEAKER_4: But in the end it works.
SPEAKER_4: And that's the greatest thing about it.
SPEAKER_4: And it's, yeah, even greater if you, when you see that people are actually liking it and maybe even using it.
SPEAKER_4: And you see your own program running on some other people's C64.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, interestingly, when I contacted you, you said, I'm not sure if I'm as sophisticated with my GUI like C64OS by Gregory Natchu.
SPEAKER_1: So is that kind of your role model when it comes to that?
SPEAKER_1: Or I mean, I saw you even commented on his approach on the LeMans64 forums.
SPEAKER_4: Did I?
SPEAKER_1: Yes, you said that he's using a different method of drawing the screen and that is why his graphics are looking smaller.
SPEAKER_4: Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_4: For example, when he draws a button, so in C64OS, when there's a button, it's just the text and the color around.
SPEAKER_4: And that's it.
SPEAKER_4: So of course, you can do it and it's reasonable to do it.
SPEAKER_4: But let's say it doesn't look that nice.
SPEAKER_4: But yeah, for example, in this Gui64, this uses a lot more space for the button because, so when you want to have some lines around it and stuff, and it's text-based, so you have to use all the tiles around it.
SPEAKER_4: That's one point, but on the other hand, that looks neater, let's say tidier in the end, because there's more free space.
SPEAKER_4: So in the C64 OS, you have, I don't know, some controls, buttons and everything all around, and it's maybe hard to find the positions, but you actually have to click or, I don't know, I've never used it, but I have.
SPEAKER_1: I mean, Ajay can comment on that.
SPEAKER_1: Is it messy at times?
SPEAKER_2: It can get a little bit cluttered.
SPEAKER_2: I don't know if I would call it messy.
SPEAKER_2: As you said, it's a different way of doing it.
SPEAKER_2: The buttons are the words.
SPEAKER_2: So there's a thing around it that makes that.
SPEAKER_2: It works well enough.
SPEAKER_2: It's just, again, it's just a different method of doing it.
SPEAKER_4: I think it's super impressive.
SPEAKER_4: So when I see videos of it, of either Gregory himself or on Retro Recipes, he has also made a video on it.
SPEAKER_4: And it's just, wow, it's great.
SPEAKER_4: So that's not what this Gui64 is about.
SPEAKER_4: Not at all.
SPEAKER_4: So it's not an operating system.
SPEAKER_4: It's just an interface using the slow kernel methods.
SPEAKER_4: And also it's for disks only.
SPEAKER_4: At least right now, it's not for SD2IEC or something.
SPEAKER_4: At least not yet.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know if I can do it.
SPEAKER_4: But I think C64 is only for SD2IEC devices, I think.
SPEAKER_4: Which is, I think then also faster, is it?
SPEAKER_4: I don't know.
SPEAKER_2: No, because it depends.
SPEAKER_2: It depends.
SPEAKER_2: So the SD2IEC is not a fast interface, it's as fast as a 1541 or anything else.
SPEAKER_2: Certain things, I think the Epix fast load will speed it up, and I want to say maybe JiffyDOS, I don't quote me on that.
SPEAKER_2: I use a super snapshot, so that doesn't do anything to it.
SPEAKER_2: I think the main reason he uses that is just because the operating system itself is so large, you couldn't fit it on a disk.
SPEAKER_1: But let's point out here, you're not talking about the original Epix fast load from 85.
SPEAKER_2: I'm talking about the reload.
SPEAKER_1: About the reload, exactly.
SPEAKER_2: Maybe the original one would speed it up.
SPEAKER_2: I think the SD2IEC was made with that in mind.
SPEAKER_2: I had an original one, it worked fine.
SPEAKER_2: I think it sped it up.
SPEAKER_2: I don't know.
SPEAKER_2: I got one of the new ones because I wanted the reset switch, and then I stopped using that because I found my old SuperSnapShot, which I like better, even though it doesn't do anything to the SD2IEC.
SPEAKER_1: So another question is, if you say your GUI is drive supporting, does it also work with the 1571 and 1581?
SPEAKER_1: Because the 1581 actually has a built-in burst mode.
SPEAKER_2: Well, only for 128, so 64 can't use the burst mode.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, so this isn't C128 software.
SPEAKER_1: That's not true.
SPEAKER_1: You can act on the 1581.
SPEAKER_1: You can also make it faster on the C64, because it's a kernel thing of the drive, not depending on the computer.
SPEAKER_2: But the computer's handling of it is slow.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, but for example, if I use one-
SPEAKER_2: It's not going to be full burst mode.
SPEAKER_2: I think anything kernel-based is going to work, because you use the built-in kernel.
SPEAKER_2: So anything that's built into the 64, and or 1581 or whatever else should work fine because that's what it's working from.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: I just tried it today.
SPEAKER_4: What's actually not working was renaming a disk.
SPEAKER_4: I could rename files, for example, on the disk, on the D81.
SPEAKER_4: Actually, D71 can have a double size, right?
SPEAKER_4: Exactly.
SPEAKER_4: That's also still a little bug in there.
SPEAKER_4: Though it's still saying, oh, it has 664 blocks.
SPEAKER_1: And on top of that, the 1541 has a bug in overwriting files, because there is a bug in the operating system of the 1541.
SPEAKER_1: They only fix it in the 1541 too.
SPEAKER_1: Because there is a kernel command in the drive for overwriting files, which means the file is deleted.
SPEAKER_1: No, it's loaded into the memory of the drive, then deleted and then rewritten.
SPEAKER_1: And this process actually is bogged in the original 1541.
SPEAKER_1: And they never fixed it before release.
SPEAKER_1: So when you use the kernel command for overwrite, you can actually damage your files.
SPEAKER_1: It's amazing.
SPEAKER_1: They only fixed it in the 1541-2, which we know was released in 1988.
SPEAKER_2: The 1541-C, the 1541-C also fixed it.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_2: My old 1541 back there works fine.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: The C.
SPEAKER_4: But what about the 1641-C?
SPEAKER_2: It's the one that they made for the 1641-C.
SPEAKER_2: It's beige, it's got a slightly different internals, like the sensor, I think, that watches the little thing spin around was activated.
SPEAKER_1: No, but a small correction, the C64C and the cream-colored one was actually done for the C64G, which is the cream-white prepin model, which is confusing.
SPEAKER_1: But that's the C64.
SPEAKER_1: And that was the 1541C was made for.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: And then there's also a 1541, exclusively done in Germany for certain supermarkets.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_1: No, it was not Aldi.
SPEAKER_1: It was not Aldi.
SPEAKER_2: It wasn't Aldi.
SPEAKER_1: It wasn't Aldi.
SPEAKER_1: It was a different one.
SPEAKER_1: And I would have to look it up because I have one of those tribes.
SPEAKER_1: It still has the label of the supermarket on it.
SPEAKER_1: And actually, that was released.
SPEAKER_2: Let's do this right here.
SPEAKER_2: This is some magic right here.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, and that was...
SPEAKER_2: That's the 1541C, that beige thing.
SPEAKER_2: That's the American 1541C.
SPEAKER_2: Yes.
SPEAKER_1: But that's the American one.
SPEAKER_1: The PAL version is in a cream white case.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_1: The European version has a different case.
SPEAKER_2: That's not brown.
SPEAKER_2: That's like the same color as the 64C.
SPEAKER_1: That's cream.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Hang on.
SPEAKER_2: Look.
SPEAKER_2: Back on here.
SPEAKER_1: Now we discuss about...
SPEAKER_2: This took a turn, man.
SPEAKER_2: This took a turn.
SPEAKER_2: See, that's the color of a regular 64.
SPEAKER_1: Right.
SPEAKER_2: That's the same as the 64C.
SPEAKER_2: That's the same color.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: But our European 64C...
SPEAKER_2: This thing is not green, but...
SPEAKER_1: Our European 1541C is even whiter, more white than this.
SPEAKER_2: Well, I mean, it's not new either, so it may just be a little bit colored.
SPEAKER_2: My lightning is not fantastic in here.
SPEAKER_1: Now we discuss about colors of this thing.
SPEAKER_2: Now we're getting into the minutia.
SPEAKER_4: But I have a question concerning colors.
SPEAKER_4: Maybe you know.
SPEAKER_4: So I think that there was the RDC64, right?
SPEAKER_2: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: Didn't it really have a white keyboard?
SPEAKER_1: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Because all the keyboards I see on eBay or whatever, they are always either brown, like for the bread bin, or cream, but no white one.
SPEAKER_4: I mean, I would love to have a white keyboard.
SPEAKER_1: Well, it was not very white.
SPEAKER_1: It was still cream, if you put it that way.
SPEAKER_1: The main difference and why it was the RDC64 is actually, they removed the five volts from the cassette port.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_3: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_3: So why did they do this?
SPEAKER_2: I thought that was debunked.
SPEAKER_2: I thought that was totally debunked because I thought that was a-
SPEAKER_1: Was that debunked?
SPEAKER_2: I thought it was.
SPEAKER_2: Maybe I'm wrong.
SPEAKER_2: I'm almost certain that was debunked because the things that were disconnected are also disconnected on my shortboard 64C, but the five volt is still connected, it still works.
SPEAKER_2: I don't know.
SPEAKER_2: Maybe I'm wrong.
SPEAKER_2: We're really, really off-topic.
SPEAKER_2: We're just all over the place here.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, that is actually because I asked him if he supports those other tribes, you know?
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Exactly.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: And more or less, it does.
SPEAKER_4: But yeah, so there's still some bugs or, yeah.
SPEAKER_4: I think for the 1581, I might have to rewrite some stuff.
SPEAKER_4: But actually, I think the copy-paste stuff all works, and it even supports files with more than a thousand blocks.
SPEAKER_2: Wow.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Wow.
SPEAKER_4: On the 1581.
SPEAKER_1: And does it support folders?
SPEAKER_4: No.
SPEAKER_2: No, on the 1541 or 1581, they don't do folders.
SPEAKER_1: No, that's not true.
SPEAKER_1: 1541 has built-in folder support.
SPEAKER_2: 1541?
SPEAKER_1: Sorry, 1581, I wanted to say.
SPEAKER_2: 1581 has partition support.
SPEAKER_1: No, they call it folder in the manual.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: I know, but I remember messing with that, and I think it's actually partitions, because I remember messing with that, and it was such a pain to do it.
SPEAKER_1: That's why it was never really used.
SPEAKER_1: Because it's a mess.
SPEAKER_2: It sucked.
SPEAKER_1: It's a mess.
SPEAKER_4: No, but I think, yeah, I would, so at the moment, I'm working on a file viewer, so that you can actually view like text in sequential files, make this visible.
SPEAKER_4: When this is finished, I think I will work on SD2IC support and also directories and stuff.
SPEAKER_4: That will not be easy, I guess.
SPEAKER_4: But yeah, I think it would be nice actually also to reach more people.
SPEAKER_4: But because I think at least many people have SD2IC and not an ultimate or 15.
SPEAKER_4: What's that called here?
SPEAKER_4: 1521?
SPEAKER_4: Ultimate 21.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, got one of those too.
SPEAKER_4: There are more people who have an SD2IC, so it would be nice if people like that could also use Gui64.
SPEAKER_1: The good old Gideon Schweitzer gadgets.
SPEAKER_2: And so Gui64 is not a full-on operating system, so you don't have apps that run within it.
SPEAKER_2: You use that to access your files, and can you launch things from that?
SPEAKER_2: Well, wait.
SPEAKER_4: So, I have now rearranged the memory, so that I actually have now about 17 kilobytes free for apps.
SPEAKER_4: I will have to write some interface or at least some tutorials, how to use the functions like create window and all this stuff.
SPEAKER_4: But yeah, but this is all future music.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_1: Future music.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know if you say this in English.
SPEAKER_2: We get the idea.
SPEAKER_2: Were you going to show us a demo or anything, because you were talking about sharing screen or something?
SPEAKER_2: Sure.
SPEAKER_4: I can.
SPEAKER_4: Let's try.
SPEAKER_2: I'd be interested to see how it looks.
SPEAKER_2: Because I see the screen shots.
SPEAKER_2: I'm looking at that, but actually seeing it in action is probably a totally different thing.
SPEAKER_4: View Sonic.
SPEAKER_3: That should be it.
SPEAKER_3: So start sharing.
SPEAKER_2: There's a screen.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: All right.
SPEAKER_1: I use that too.
SPEAKER_1: Very nice dictionary.
SPEAKER_3: The Leo?
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_3: Okay.
SPEAKER_3: Maybe this.
SPEAKER_3: I don't need this.
SPEAKER_4: So do you see the screen?
SPEAKER_2: Yes.
SPEAKER_3: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: The code and stuff.
SPEAKER_2: Yes, indeed.
SPEAKER_4: This is C64 Studio by Georg Rotensteiner.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: So this is an alternative to the other one, which CBM Studio, I think it's called.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: What do you use, AJ?
SPEAKER_2: I use boring old turbo assembler on the C64.
SPEAKER_3: No.
SPEAKER_2: No shit.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_3: Wow.
SPEAKER_3: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: I've tried to do it elsewhere.
SPEAKER_2: I've tried to do it like either emulated or on the Mac or whatever, and I just cannot wrap my brain around it.
SPEAKER_3: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: I think I couldn't on the Toho Macro Pro, right?
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Because, I mean, you have like 24 lines in total, and that's it, so you don't see more.
SPEAKER_4: That's why I couldn't wrap my mind around it.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: So, I mean, here you have more than 24 lines.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: How many are there?
SPEAKER_4: So, 41 lines on the screen at least.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: So, maybe I just started from here.
SPEAKER_4: Now, it's on the wrong monitor.
SPEAKER_4: Hello.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: So, it's still assembling.
SPEAKER_4: Now, okay, it's hard.
SPEAKER_1: Wow.
SPEAKER_1: Nice.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Half on one monitor, half on the other.
SPEAKER_3: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: Now, you see it in school story, right?
SPEAKER_1: I like how you have the Shickenhead on the lower left.
SPEAKER_3: What?
SPEAKER_1: The Shickenhead logo on the lower left.
SPEAKER_2: Commodore logo.
SPEAKER_2: It looks like a Shickenhead.
SPEAKER_1: They call it Shickenhead.
SPEAKER_4: So, okay.
SPEAKER_4: Something happened to your video, at least on my screen.
SPEAKER_4: Now, you're better.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: All right.
SPEAKER_4: So, yeah.
SPEAKER_4: I have to put on the mouse and maybe make it full screen.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: All right.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: So, what can I do?
SPEAKER_4: I can, okay.
SPEAKER_4: So, let me open some.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Actually, I can show you the DAD.
SPEAKER_4: Now, okay.
SPEAKER_4: So, it's actually now in 1541 mode, device emulator.
SPEAKER_3: So, I don't know.
SPEAKER_4: So, what can I put on here?
SPEAKER_3: Some disk.
SPEAKER_3: So, let's check this one.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: So, then you double-click on, oh, let's first set the time, let's say.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, all right.
SPEAKER_1: Does it support fetching the time from RTC devices?
SPEAKER_1: For example, the CMT smart mouse has a clock inside.
SPEAKER_2: Or the Ultimate 64 or Ultimate 1541.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: But I don't know if that is actually possible to get the clock.
SPEAKER_4: So, the time from the Ultimate 64.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean, I got my CMT smart mouse sent to Maurice Rendell to get the real-time clock repaired because it was broken.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: That's new to me because that would be super cool.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: I don't know how, but there is certainly a way to do it.
SPEAKER_1: I mean, if-
SPEAKER_2: I think it's just a location somewhere.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: I think it just puts it somewhere in memory.
SPEAKER_1: Now, my first question would be, does it support also drive 10, 11, 12?
SPEAKER_1: Because the C64 can have up to-
SPEAKER_2: 9,000.
SPEAKER_1: Up from 8 to 12?
SPEAKER_1: Do you support it or just 8 and 9 for now?
SPEAKER_4: Just 8 and 9.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: Because also I think it's enough first.
SPEAKER_1: And I mean-
SPEAKER_1: I mean, true.
SPEAKER_1: True.
SPEAKER_4: True.
SPEAKER_4: So there's a lot of code around these, the distinguish-
SPEAKER_4: distinguishments, the distinguishing, I don't know.
SPEAKER_4: Between-
SPEAKER_1: Yes, it's a correct word.
SPEAKER_1: It's a correct word, yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Between drives, drive 8 and 9.
SPEAKER_4: So I would have to rewrite everything.
SPEAKER_1: Basically.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: A whole lot at least.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: So no-
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, I have to admit, I'm also swapping drives rather than having-
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: 10, 11, 12, yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: But you could have drive 1 for data set.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, that would be fun.
SPEAKER_1: Drive 1 for data set.
SPEAKER_4: Data set?
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, like you said, tape drive.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: If you want to wait four hours for something to happen.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: It's actually not so slow.
SPEAKER_2: No, it's not that slow, but it's slow enough to make it really not.
SPEAKER_1: Right.
SPEAKER_4: But when I think about it, no.
SPEAKER_4: So yeah, clock setting.
SPEAKER_4: So everything, as you see, is based on Windows.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: So when I double click here on the time, there will be this dialogue.
SPEAKER_4: And by the way, so this is a dialogue.
SPEAKER_4: It doesn't appear here on the taskbar.
SPEAKER_4: So you can click whatever you want.
SPEAKER_4: It doesn't affect.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: So it doesn't take effect because it's a dialogue.
SPEAKER_4: We have to work with the dialogue right now.
SPEAKER_4: So what's the time?
SPEAKER_3: It's 21.36.
SPEAKER_4: And it also takes care of NTSC and PAL.
SPEAKER_3: So-
SPEAKER_1: Oh, that would be my next question.
SPEAKER_1: Nice.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Right.
SPEAKER_3: So 21.36.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: And you can also, actually, I can also use the cursor keys.
SPEAKER_4: So now it's, so this one here is the focus.
SPEAKER_4: So I can also and yeah.
SPEAKER_4: And also actually, also actually the mouse wheel, which I would use right now for this one here.
SPEAKER_3: Oh, nice.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Right.
SPEAKER_1: And what does the left upper corner icon do?
SPEAKER_3: This one?
SPEAKER_1: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: Nothing.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_1: Just be there to look nice.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: Exactly.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Now I just thought maybe later on I will, but no, I don't think so.
SPEAKER_4: So it's just there for being nice.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Make it full screen.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_3: The clock one.
SPEAKER_4: No, it's a fixed size.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: But it was a joke, obviously.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Now, yeah, right.
SPEAKER_4: So you can click the set button and then it...
SPEAKER_1: Now, if you could make the drive icons on the left to display, if the drive is open or closed, that would be amazing.
SPEAKER_1: Huh?
SPEAKER_1: If you could actually these are status of the drive, but it's closed or open, that would be amazing.
SPEAKER_1: Because right now, it looks like it's closed, so I would assume there are diskettes in both drives.
SPEAKER_2: How would you do that even?
SPEAKER_1: I mean, you can see that the knob is down.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, no, I know that, but how would you detect that?
SPEAKER_1: I guess you can, right?
SPEAKER_1: I mean, there are demos who can detect when you swap the disk sites without pressing anything.
SPEAKER_2: Yes.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, I guess so.
SPEAKER_1: There are ways to probe the disk drive.
SPEAKER_4: That's correct, yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Actually, well, okay.
SPEAKER_1: But we are now into drive coding.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, you're getting way in the weeds here.
SPEAKER_2: You're going way in the weeds here, okay?
SPEAKER_4: Did I put any disk in there?
SPEAKER_4: So I double-click this now?
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_3: So I put this here.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: So first of all, as you saw with this dialogue, yeah, you can move around windows and stuff.
SPEAKER_3: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: So I can also move this one around.
SPEAKER_4: So here are then two buttons to minimize it and maximize.
SPEAKER_1: There's a maximize button.
SPEAKER_1: Amazing.
SPEAKER_1: Have you demonstrated?
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, amazing.
SPEAKER_4: So this is like maximizing, but it has a fixed width.
SPEAKER_4: So this window, because yeah, so it's the, you know, so this has 16 and most, 16 letters, the title, three letters for the file type, and then some digits for the size.
SPEAKER_1: So blocks, blocks amount.
SPEAKER_4: Right.
SPEAKER_4: So therefore it has a fixed width.
SPEAKER_4: And because also I'm too lazy to, of course, when you, yeah, when you want to allow various widths, then you have to work more.
SPEAKER_3: This is the easier.
SPEAKER_1: I mean, why would you need it?
SPEAKER_1: You know, compared to the PC, you don't have 255 shards.
SPEAKER_1: That's, as I said, it's only 16 shards.
SPEAKER_1: So it's good.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_4: I mean, you could make some, I don't know, some symbols here, and then the arrow changes to another arrow, and then you can make this maybe narrower, the whole thing here.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, because it's pretty wide, right?
SPEAKER_4: So it takes a lot of space.
SPEAKER_1: What's the options there?
SPEAKER_1: Disk and file?
SPEAKER_4: Well, there's a lot of options, but let me show first, so you can scroll through the list.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: I mean, of course, otherwise, it would be bad.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, so you select files.
SPEAKER_4: You can also use now the cursor keys to go up and down.
SPEAKER_4: You can try to run one of these.
SPEAKER_4: I mean, these are sequential files.
SPEAKER_4: They cannot be run, but I can try anyways by pressing the Return key.
SPEAKER_3: If I'm not found, yeah, it does not run.
SPEAKER_3: Oh, now it's gone.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_4: So I have to load it up again, but that's pretty fast because I have, it's an emulator and I use what it's called.
SPEAKER_4: So it's not true drive emulation, but the other one.
SPEAKER_1: But you-
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: So yeah, right.
SPEAKER_4: So then you have here these menus like this.
SPEAKER_4: You can refresh.
SPEAKER_4: It shows you again, I mean, I have not changed the disk, but if I do, then there will of course be the next content.
SPEAKER_4: I have info.
SPEAKER_4: So it tells me how much space is occupied and there's available, how many files.
SPEAKER_4: Also tells usually the drive type, but well, okay.
SPEAKER_4: So I have now the virtual drive, and so it doesn't really understand that it's a.41.
SPEAKER_1: Interesting that you probe if it's right protected.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, you can detect this with some, I don't know, trickery.
SPEAKER_4: I have to say, so a lot of stuff that works in the background here, I know from this Forum 64.
SPEAKER_4: Or, yeah, people help me a lot to make this happen.
SPEAKER_4: I wouldn't have ever, yeah, by myself.
SPEAKER_1: Can you also support oversized disks?
SPEAKER_1: You know, I mean, there are oversized disks that you can get programs to run on track 36 to 41.
SPEAKER_1: Do you support that?
SPEAKER_4: I guess not.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, so you stop at track 35.
SPEAKER_2: I would think it might work, but it just wouldn't, it wouldn't show those extra, the extra blocks, I think.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_4: I have never heard about this.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, you don't know?
SPEAKER_1: Okay, well, there are programs, and also it's used for copy protection of games, and also Geos uses that, by the way.
SPEAKER_1: You can write to track 36 to 41, but 41 only works for the 1541 too.
SPEAKER_1: The original 5041 only works till track 40, so there are actually six tracks not used on the diskette.
SPEAKER_2: But if you do anything with those disks, it always shows the same amount of space, the same number of blocks, even if those, because it's tricks they're using, it's tricks, it's not like, it's not like this is a natively supported thing that just you can do.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, Geos, for example, uses it to mark the files that you put in on the desktop, outside of the disk itself.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: And it stores a flag there.
SPEAKER_1: So when you put in the disk the next time, Geos knows, okay, this file is outside of the actual directory window.
SPEAKER_3: Right.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: How much space do you have on these tracks?
SPEAKER_1: Oh, I don't know.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, I don't know.
SPEAKER_3: Shouldn't I?
SPEAKER_2: That's right.
SPEAKER_4: Maybe some.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: It's not going to be a lot.
SPEAKER_1: But interestingly, for emulators, they actually invented a new disk format for that.
SPEAKER_1: It's called G64.
SPEAKER_4: I know.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_3: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: So it is G64 with this, let's say natural support.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: It is supported nowadays.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: It is support nowadays.
SPEAKER_1: But to restore those disks on real disks, you actually need a Nippler program.
SPEAKER_2: On a 40-track disk, you get 713 blocks free.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: That's how much it holds.
SPEAKER_3: Okay.
SPEAKER_3: So it's like about 50 more.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: That's actually great.
SPEAKER_4: I didn't ever know about that.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: So I don't know much about disk operations.
SPEAKER_4: I mean, I learned some stuff during developing this Gui64, but I'm far away from being any expert on this.
SPEAKER_4: So I've got a lot of help from the forum, and which I'm pretty grateful for.
SPEAKER_4: Right.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_1: So-
SPEAKER_1: By the way, Ajay, something happened to your face, I believe.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: It's called the sun coming through the window.
SPEAKER_2: The sun coming through the window.
SPEAKER_2: That'll go away in a minute.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: All right.
SPEAKER_4: So info, you saw that we can format the disk, then we have to-
SPEAKER_1: Oh, fast format and full format.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: So fast format is without verify, and full format is the normal verify method, I believe.
SPEAKER_4: No, full format sends the new colon, this name, and I think that's it.
SPEAKER_4: And no, that's fast format, in full format, use the ID.
SPEAKER_4: So, comma ID, which takes much longer than just full, fast format, when you don't specify an ID, it's pretty quick.
SPEAKER_2: Now, if you're using a, so again, I've got a SuperStampShot on mine, which speeds up disk access and does that stuff.
SPEAKER_2: And since you're using the kernel routines of the machine and the drive, will it make use of a fast load if you've got one plugged in?
SPEAKER_3: Actually, no.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know what, but I also use the SuperStampShot.
SPEAKER_4: But when I have the snapshot in, and I use the disk version of Gui64, so I load it from this, this of course fast, and then I run it, or actually it's auto run.
SPEAKER_4: But then when I use any of these functions that are implemented with the kernel, it's slow.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know, I've not tried, but it might be the-
SPEAKER_4: so the SuperStampShot uses different system vectors.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, and that might be the problem, because I also change the system vectors for this auto run stuff.
SPEAKER_4: But as soon as Gui64 starts, I set them back to default.
SPEAKER_4: That might be the problem.
SPEAKER_1: Here's something interesting to try.
SPEAKER_1: On Action Replay, you can actually freeze the program and then re-inject the fast loader into a program.
SPEAKER_1: Perhaps that could work.
SPEAKER_2: I wonder if maybe SuperStampShot can do something similar.
SPEAKER_2: I know you can freeze stuff and go back.
SPEAKER_2: That's something you can do.
SPEAKER_2: I don't know.
SPEAKER_2: I don't really use it for that.
SPEAKER_4: Well, at least I know that this Gui64, for whatever reason, does not work together with, I think it was Action Replay or the Final Cartridge.
SPEAKER_4: I always mix those two up.
SPEAKER_1: Well, the Final Cartridge is the one with the fancy GUI.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: And Action Replay is like you are fast to the action with the F keys.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Well, like on Super Snapshot, you also have the F keys.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: So you can format this.
SPEAKER_4: You can rename this.
SPEAKER_3: So like now it's Pupu.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know why the zero is there, so let's just delete it.
SPEAKER_3: So Pupu V51.
SPEAKER_4: And now you can press return or okay.
SPEAKER_3: I just press okay.
SPEAKER_4: And now it's Pupu V51.
SPEAKER_3: Nice.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Nice.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_3: And close the window.
SPEAKER_1: That's actually interesting.
SPEAKER_1: I've never seen a program doing that, that you can rename a disk without formatting it.
SPEAKER_4: Exactly.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: So that was also, I mean, you can do this with some programs, I think.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Perhaps, Dear Master, special programs, but not natively.
SPEAKER_4: Actually, yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know.
SPEAKER_4: But yeah, the Gui64 you can.
SPEAKER_1: Amazing.
SPEAKER_4: It's nice.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: So here's the file menu.
SPEAKER_4: You can cut, copy, paste.
SPEAKER_4: You can delete files.
SPEAKER_4: Actually, I don't want to delete anything from this disk here.
SPEAKER_4: You can really.
SPEAKER_1: What does few do?
SPEAKER_1: How much can you?
SPEAKER_1: Few things.
SPEAKER_4: So that's what I'm working on right now.
SPEAKER_4: So for example, if I select your level one, and go on to file view, then you will get this file view window.
SPEAKER_4: Nice.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, you see the level data.
SPEAKER_1: It's actually readable.
SPEAKER_1: Let's go.
SPEAKER_4: What do you mean, let's go?
SPEAKER_1: I mean, it's readable.
SPEAKER_1: It's not garbage.
SPEAKER_4: So yeah, let's go.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, so you can view it as text uppercase, text lowercase.
SPEAKER_4: So this is now uppercase.
SPEAKER_4: As you can see here, apparently.
SPEAKER_4: So lowercase just makes this lowercase.
SPEAKER_4: And as you can also view the hex version.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, nice.
SPEAKER_1: It has a built-in monitor this way.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, well, yeah.
SPEAKER_4: You can even make it large.
SPEAKER_4: But the thing which does not work yet is the progress bar, at least in this view window.
SPEAKER_4: So I can click whatever I want here.
SPEAKER_3: It doesn't work.
SPEAKER_1: Well, okay.
SPEAKER_1: Work in progress.
SPEAKER_1: I see.
SPEAKER_4: Right.
SPEAKER_4: So that's the next one I will attack.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_3: So this is the five view.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, of course, the main thing here is that you can run the programs from there.
SPEAKER_1: What's the difference between run and boot?
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: So run is like load, 8, run.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: It's load, 8, 1, and then either run or not, depending on whether it's an autostart or not.
SPEAKER_4: So within Gui64, you can actually boot.js for whatever reason you want to do this.
SPEAKER_4: But you can do this.
SPEAKER_4: Nice.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, you can rename files.
SPEAKER_3: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: So level 0, 0, 1, level 1.
SPEAKER_4: And there it is.
SPEAKER_3: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: But let me name it back.
SPEAKER_4: I think that's important.
SPEAKER_4: Rename.
SPEAKER_4: The mouse emulation is really bad on VICE.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_3: 0, 0, 1.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: Delete.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: So I won't delete this, but it will show you a dialogue again.
SPEAKER_3: Are you sure?
SPEAKER_4: No, I'm not.
SPEAKER_4: And okay.
SPEAKER_4: So I can show you quickly a demo of how to.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_3: This is also works.
SPEAKER_4: Hold on.
SPEAKER_4: Nine.
SPEAKER_3: Let me put in some disk.
SPEAKER_3: Let's put in recent maybe.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Let's take Bluemax.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: Nine.
SPEAKER_3: Bluemax.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: There's only one file which is Bluemax.
SPEAKER_4: And so now we can.
SPEAKER_1: The gold version from Remember.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Oh.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know all this stuff.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: It's what is different from the original one?
SPEAKER_1: I don't know, but it has 10 trainers.
SPEAKER_4: That must be good.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: But in the beginning, you have to say no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's right.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_3: So let's pick this Pupu 51.
SPEAKER_3: That's version 51.
SPEAKER_4: Now then let's say copy.
SPEAKER_4: And you go to file paste.
SPEAKER_2: And then it's copying.
SPEAKER_1: Here's the question.
SPEAKER_1: Paste, copy.
SPEAKER_2: That was quick.
SPEAKER_2: Do you really meant?
SPEAKER_4: Because it's the version.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: I just realized that.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: So you are really, when you move, do you have a fail save and only delete it on the source, when you are sure that it moved correctly?
SPEAKER_4: I think so, yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: I cannot recall, but I think it was this way.
SPEAKER_1: Because imagine if you copy and the copy fails, and then you remove it anyway because you said move instead of copy.
SPEAKER_1: That would be a disaster.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: In fact, yes.
SPEAKER_4: I mean, I think there is.
SPEAKER_4: No algorithm that really makes sure that the whole file has been copied.
SPEAKER_4: But it's like if there's no error that the kernel calls, call an error, yeah.
SPEAKER_3: What's that called?
SPEAKER_3: Whatever.
SPEAKER_4: So if there's no error from the kernel, then yeah.
SPEAKER_1: You mean if no error is triggered?
SPEAKER_4: If no error is triggered, exactly.
SPEAKER_1: And if an error is triggered, then it aborts the operation without deleting the file on the source.
SPEAKER_4: Exactly, yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, that's very important, yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Because I remember in old Windows versions, if you said move file with cut and paste, and for some reason the moving failed, you had only half of the file on both places, and you were like, crap, my file is...
SPEAKER_3: Really?
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_4: I cannot remember this.
SPEAKER_1: Very, very, very old, old times.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_3: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: That's crap.
SPEAKER_3: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: Are you sure?
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: So I need it once.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_1: Interesting.
SPEAKER_4: What else can we do?
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: We saw, of course, yeah, you can also cut and paste, which we talked about.
SPEAKER_3: Delete.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Rename.
SPEAKER_4: We saw this already.
SPEAKER_3: View.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: So let's run Lumix, right?
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: Run.
SPEAKER_1: Can you also double-click on it to run?
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_3: Okay.
SPEAKER_3: Exactly.
SPEAKER_4: So later on, double-click.
SPEAKER_3: We hit.
SPEAKER_2: There it is.
SPEAKER_4: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: So, yeah, now it's this.
SPEAKER_2: Here's the trainers.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Nice.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, oh yeah, wait.
SPEAKER_4: So I haven't showed you everything.
SPEAKER_4: Now it's sending again.
SPEAKER_4: Sorry, it takes a little...
SPEAKER_1: Oh, no problem.
SPEAKER_4: There it is, okay.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, so you can, so there are also settings.
SPEAKER_4: So here's this little Commodore button.
SPEAKER_4: What did you call it?
SPEAKER_4: And there's the settings window.
SPEAKER_4: And yeah, so all these controls.
SPEAKER_4: Okay, so as you can see, everything is window based.
SPEAKER_4: And so everything that you see here is called a control.
SPEAKER_4: So this, just this little text, this title here is the control.
SPEAKER_4: So there are like five text controls, which are called labels.
SPEAKER_4: These are then color picker controls.
SPEAKER_4: Nice.
SPEAKER_4: So we can change.
SPEAKER_4: I don't know if I clicked the right one.
SPEAKER_4: Actually, the mouse emulation got even worse.
SPEAKER_4: So I can change now the colors.
SPEAKER_4: Let's save this one for the inactive title bar, and maybe leave everything else.
SPEAKER_1: Dotted pattern.
SPEAKER_1: How does that look?
SPEAKER_3: That looks like this.
SPEAKER_1: Wow.
SPEAKER_1: As in good old times.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Exactly.
SPEAKER_4: As in good old times, right?
SPEAKER_4: I mean, we can-
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Let's say, make the desk-
SPEAKER_1: We are going back to the 80s, man.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, there you go.
SPEAKER_3: Wow.
SPEAKER_1: Now the chicken head is still in color.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Actually, so this chicken head button is drawn with sprites.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: As you can see down here, does it celebrate Christmas and put on the center head or something?
SPEAKER_1: I mean, sprites, I always thought sprites only for moving objects, no?
SPEAKER_3: No.
SPEAKER_4: Or if you cannot accomplish something with characters.
SPEAKER_4: So here, the screen is split, right?
SPEAKER_4: So above here, you have high-res mode.
SPEAKER_4: And here, at this point, you, here.
SPEAKER_4: So first, the high-res mode is changed to multi-color, which you can see here at the, because the lines are double.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: And it's because of this down here, because you have so black, gray, and white.
SPEAKER_4: So one has to be the background color, but then you have two colors, which you cannot do in high-res, right?
SPEAKER_4: So you have to do it in multi-color.
SPEAKER_4: That's pretty smart.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_3: Fortunately, yeah.
SPEAKER_3: Well, okay.
SPEAKER_4: But here, the button has only one line vertically, right?
SPEAKER_3: Ah.
SPEAKER_3: Most of it.
SPEAKER_2: So you do most of this in character graphics, right?
SPEAKER_4: Pardon?
SPEAKER_2: You're doing most of the Gui using character graphics.
SPEAKER_4: Everything.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: A custom character set.
SPEAKER_4: And for this reason, I need sprites here.
SPEAKER_4: I mean, I could have also made it like this, but why?
SPEAKER_4: I can do it like this.
SPEAKER_4: And in fact, above here, I have two sprites or actually, yeah, one for drive 8 and one for drive 9.
SPEAKER_4: Let me go back to the solid version.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, so if I move a window over it, you will see it will flicker a little bit.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, because of the same reason.
SPEAKER_4: So I only have one color per tile.
SPEAKER_4: And here, this would be this.
SPEAKER_3: Come on, let's make the desktop blue.
SPEAKER_3: Let's do this for example.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, so here I have this light gray for the drive and the black.
SPEAKER_4: So black is the background color, and the gray is the foreground color.
SPEAKER_4: So here, there's blue and gray on one tile, which is not possible, right?
SPEAKER_4: So there would be, in fact, if there was no sprite, there would be a black background, which would look bad.
SPEAKER_4: So therefore, I just put a sprite over it.
SPEAKER_1: Amazing.
SPEAKER_1: But you have to be careful about sprite limitation.
SPEAKER_1: You only can have eight sprites at a time, right?
SPEAKER_4: Well, yeah, that's at least on one line.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_4: So I don't know, do I have, maybe I even have four sprites here and four sprites here.
SPEAKER_4: Then you have also the mouse.
SPEAKER_4: What's it called?
SPEAKER_4: The mouse, the mouse.
SPEAKER_1: Arrow or pointer.
SPEAKER_4: Which is made of two sprites.
SPEAKER_4: So there is a small multiplexer in there, but it's not.
SPEAKER_1: That's what I was aiming at.
SPEAKER_1: So you have a sprite multiplexer in place.
SPEAKER_4: Very simple.
SPEAKER_2: Well, he's got, there's a screen cut down where you were saying, where you switch from high-res to multicolor.
SPEAKER_2: That would be a screen cut, right?
SPEAKER_2: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: So you could, in theory, you have eight sprites below that cut, and then eight sprites above that cut.
SPEAKER_3: Exactly.
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_4: But I think I use four in total.
SPEAKER_4: Four above, four below, and that's it.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, actually, so the button here is made of four sprites.
SPEAKER_3: And actually here above, I should only be using two.
SPEAKER_4: Well, whatever.
SPEAKER_4: And so the background color is changed at this point.
SPEAKER_4: The graphics mode to mark the color and also the character set is also changed from here to here.
SPEAKER_4: So here you have a full two kilobytes character set and here below we have one kilobyte just for the buttons and stuff.
SPEAKER_1: Awesome.
SPEAKER_4: So resets and then we are making it in basic.
SPEAKER_3: Awesome.
SPEAKER_2: I'll bring you back to that.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Here you can see the character sets if you are interested.
SPEAKER_4: So I used CharPet for this character set.
SPEAKER_1: Oh yeah, CharPet.
SPEAKER_1: I know of it.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: This is the full character set and here's the small character set for the CharPet.
SPEAKER_2: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: So where can people go to learn about Gui64?
SPEAKER_4: Oh, I'm still sharing my screen, right?
SPEAKER_1: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: Yes, you are.
SPEAKER_4: So there are always, so there are, I would put demos on YouTube, which is then, yeah, so this Web Fritzi account.
SPEAKER_4: Just look for Web Fritzi and go there and try to find something new on Gui64 or there is, that's actually the wrong one.
SPEAKER_4: No, yeah, so my GitHub account, yeah, I have actually a dedicated repository for Gui64.
SPEAKER_1: Also at Web Fritzi, okay?
SPEAKER_3: Huh?
SPEAKER_1: Also at Web Fritzi.
SPEAKER_4: Yes.
SPEAKER_1: So your Web Fritzi is your username on all places basically.
SPEAKER_3: It's everywhere.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_4: Right.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, you can find in the latest binaries and the latest code.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah, and everything.
SPEAKER_4: Everything latest.
SPEAKER_2: Awesome.
SPEAKER_4: The latest and greatest.
SPEAKER_2: Yes, indeed.
SPEAKER_2: We will put links to all that in the podcast description below so people can check it out.
SPEAKER_1: Awesome.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: All right, sir.
SPEAKER_2: Thank you for sitting with us.
SPEAKER_2: This has gone into, this has turned into a thing.
SPEAKER_3: Oh, obviously.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Thanks a lot.
SPEAKER_1: Awesome.
SPEAKER_4: Guys, I have to call.
SPEAKER_4: Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_4: It was great.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
SPEAKER_4: I watched, I go through your list of podcasts.
SPEAKER_4: Awesome.
SPEAKER_1: Have fun.
SPEAKER_1: Enjoy it.
SPEAKER_1: Bye for now.
SPEAKER_1: Bye-bye.
SPEAKER_4: Bye-bye.
SPEAKER_4: Thank you.
SPEAKER_4: Ciao.
SPEAKER_1: Ciao.